# Spanish question: "No molesten" (Do Not Disturb) hotel doorknob tags **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 26, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145 "2009-10-26T05:25:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/1 "2009-10-26T05:25:59Z")
I’ve seen this on the door tags of hotels, and was wondering what the grammatical construction is. “Molesten” doesn’t look like an infinitive, which I assume would end “-ar”, “-er”, or “-ir”; nor does it look like a second person plural or singular; and nor does it look like an imperative. Even though I don’t know much Spanish at all, I do know that in Indo-European languages generally imperative forms are close to the verb root, if not exactly that. Is the “-en” a suffix that references a potential object, like in “no tocarme” (don’t touch me)? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/2 "2009-10-26T05:44:13Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > nor does it look like an imperative. _Molesten_ is [third person plural imperative](http://www.spanishdict.com/conjugate/molestar) of _molestar._ The (understood) subject is _Ustedes_, the polite form of “you” (plural), which takes third person verb forms. “[You], do not disturb.” > [@](#): > > ## Imperative > > molesta > moleste > molestemos > molestad > molesten ---
**Author:** ![VanillaGorilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@VanillaGorilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VanillaGorilla)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/3 "2009-10-26T07:55:33Z")
This is in no way an answer to your question, but check[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwqPeVkiDR4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwqPeVkiDR4) that video out. Pretty funny. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ikkyu\_Sojun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cdc98d/32.png) [@Ikkyu\_Sojun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ikkyu_Sojun)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/4 "2009-10-26T08:13:32Z")
To add up to Colibri’s answer, the “don’t touch me” sentence is not really correct. a better one would be “no me toques”, if you are talking with one person or “no me toqueis”, if you are talking with a bunch of rude guys (or gals). The use of infinitives as imperatives is to certain degree extended in Spanish, but is not usually grammatically correct. You can check details of the officially correct use in [here](http://www.rae.es/rae/gestores/gespub000018.nsf/%28voAnexos%29/arch8100821B76809110C12571B80038BA4A/$File/CuestionesparaelFAQdeconsultas.htm#ap9) and [here](http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaci%C3%B3n_del_imperativo_en_espa%C3%B1ol#Futuro_de_imperativo). To sum up, there are occasions where you can use infinitive, like talking about the past, but the imperative forms are for something. And, interestingly, infinitive can be used to ask the audience to do (or not) something, or in warning signs: Do not smoke – No fumar Wash by hand – Lavar a mano ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/5 "2009-10-26T09:38:48Z")
You could see “no tocar” (in a museum setting), but “no tocarme” just doesn’t work. I’m sure there’s people who would use it, but it’s a very strange mixture of the most impersonal imperative-like form (the infinitive used as imperative) and that personal detail, “me.” I’ve seen door signs which read “no molestar,” but again it sounds more impersonal; every time I’ve seen one of those, it was a non-Spanish-language-owned chain. “No molesten” says “I’m talking to you specifically, yes, you, person who is about to enter the room, yes, I know you’re the cleaning lady, I still want you to stay out.” In Mexico I saw “favor de no molestar,” which in Spain would have been “por favor, no molesten.” (The only hotel where I’ve had to complain about cleaning personnel ignoring that sign was not in any Spanish-speaking country but I’m afraid the memory still raises my blood pressure) ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/6 "2009-10-26T18:28:50Z")
“Molestar” is very obviously related to the English word “molest,” which can mean “disturb” but can also mean “touch a child in a way that’s totally inappropriate.” Is the same true of the Spanish verb? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/7 "2009-10-26T18:32:38Z")
Paula Poundstone used to have a bit where she expressed shock that, apparently, if you don’t put that sign up, then apparently, being molested is an option. ---
**Author:** ![Livardo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/43a26b/32.png) [@Livardo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Livardo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/8 "2009-10-26T18:57:12Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > “Molestar” is very obviously related to the English word “molest,” which can mean “disturb” but can also mean “touch a child in a way that’s totally inappropriate.” Is the same true of the Spanish verb? Nope.. Molestar just means to bother. Hopefully Spanish speakers are teaching their kids to not say things like “that kid is molesting me” to a teacher or such! ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/9 "2009-10-26T19:33:04Z")
> [@Livardo](#): > > Nope.. Molestar just means to bother. Hopefully Spanish speakers are teaching their kids to not say things like “that kid is molesting me” to a teacher or such! So how _would_ a Spanish-speaking kid allege that he/she were being molested, as in “touched inappropriately”? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/10 "2009-10-26T19:33:06Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > “Molestar” is very obviously related to the English word “molest,” which can mean “disturb” but can also mean “touch a child in a way that’s totally inappropriate.” Is the same true of the Spanish verb? The second meaning is quite recent in English, first attested in 1950. From [here](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/molest) > [@](#): > > molest > > c.1374, “to cause trouble, grief, or vexation,” from [O.Fr](http://O.Fr). molester (12c.), from L. molestare “to disturb, trouble, annoy,” from molestus “troublesome,” perhaps related to moles “mass” (see mole (3)) on notion of either “burden” or “barrier.” Meaning “sexually assault” first attested 1950. Molestation meant “the harassing of a person in his possession or occupation of lands” in Scot. law from 1456; in Eng. common law it came to mean “injury inflicted upon another.” Regarding Spanish, my Royal Academy of Spain Dictionary of the Spanish Language (2001) does not indicate any sexual meaning of _molestar_. Native speakers may be more aware if it has informally acquired such a meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Livardo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/43a26b/32.png) [@Livardo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Livardo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/11 "2009-10-26T19:46:46Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > So how _would_ a Spanish-speaking kid allege that he/she were being molested, as in “touched inappropriately”? hmm.. I’m not really sure! They could say “Me violo” if rape was involved, but I don’t know if there’s an equivalent word in Spanish to “molest”. “Me abuso” works as well. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/12 "2009-10-26T20:21:37Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > “Molestar” is very obviously related to the English word “molest,” which can mean “disturb” but can also mean “touch a child in a way that’s totally inappropriate.” Is the same true of the Spanish verb? [The manhole covers of the town of Farmersville, Texas say "Manhole - Do not molest.](http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=farmersville,+tx&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=38.502405,63.720703&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Farmersville,+Collin,+Texas&z=12) I wouldn’t annoy a manhole, either. Here is a picture of kind of what they look like… but this is in SF I think. [Link.](http://www.flickr.com/photos/targetsalad/4004047058/) ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/13 "2009-10-27T00:02:22Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > You could see “no tocar” (in a museum setting), but “no tocarme” just doesn’t work. I’m sure there’s people who would use it, but it’s a very strange mixture of the most impersonal imperative-like form (the infinitive used as imperative) and that personal detail, “me.” It might be a Latin American thing, or just my not really knowing the language, but I have seen “No tocarlo” written to say “don’t touch (it)”. Of course the person writing it wasn’t necessarily fluent, either. I’m not sure about the “lo” part, either. He might have written “-la” or “-le”. > [@](#): > > I’ve seen door signs which read “no molestar,” but again it sounds more impersonal; every time I’ve seen one of those, it was a non-Spanish-language-owned chain. Obviously there’s a great deal of this in the United States, and I’ve long suspected that signage directed at Spanish-speaking employees is often way off base. For instance, outside one hotel I know there’s a sign, “Empleado Entrada”, which they must have literally translated from English. (This is a very old hotel by California standards, and they would probably be a little more accurate today). > [@](#): > > “No molesten” says “I’m talking to you specifically, yes, you, person who is about to enter the room, yes, I know you’re the cleaning lady, I still want you to stay out.” In Mexico I saw “favor de no molestar,” which in Spain would have been “por favor, no molesten.” I wonder why the third person plural infinitive is used, though? I should have been more specific in my OP; when I said it didn’t look like an infinitive to me, I meant a second person singular imperative. By sheer coincidence, the formal second-person imperative–both singular and plural–in German is the same as the third-person plural (and, as it happens, the infinitive). Not that I expect there to be any definitive answer as all languages have these odd little details. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/14 "2009-10-27T01:13:10Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I wonder why the third person plural infinitive is used, though? I should have been more specific in my OP; when I said it didn’t look like an infinitive to me, I meant a second person singular imperative. I assume you mean imperative and not infinitive in the first two sentences. I mentioned this in my first post. The understood subject is _ustedes_, the plural second person form. (In Spain it is the formal/polite form, while in Latin America it is used in both familiar and formal situations.) _Usted_ is derived from _vuestra merced_, literally, “your mercy.” Although _usted/ustedes_ are functionally second person, they take third person conjugations for [historical reasons.](http://www.brighthub.com/education/languages/articles/6419.aspx) > [@](#): > > At one time, a few hundred years ago, Spanish did not distinguish formal from familiar you with a particular pronoun. This was awkward, since tú was acknowledged as an intimate form of address and no person considering him or herself superior in social standing would tolerate being addressed in a familiar way by a servant. Social inferiors therefore, used the expression Vuestra Merced, meaning Your Mercy or Your Grace, in an indirect fashion, as if averting their eyes from their masters. > > Of course, if you use Your Mercy as a subject pronoun, it is third person. Consider these expressions in English: “Does Your Grace wish to dine now?” or “Your Mercy eats too little!” Notice that these require third-person verbs in English. Over time, with constant use, Vuestra Merced came to be pronounced as the modern usted. In fact, until very recently, it was common to see usted abbreviated, not only as Ud. but also as Vd. ---
**Author:** ![Uncertain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Uncertain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncertain)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/15 "2009-10-27T01:45:31Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > _Usted_ is derived from _vuestra merced_, literally, “your mercy.” _Vuestra_ is second-person _plural_, like _vous_ in French. I’m not sure why just using the plural wasn’t formal enough in Spanish, as it was in French. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/16 "2009-10-27T03:28:49Z")
> [@Livardo](#): > > hmm.. I’m not really sure! They could say “Me violo” if rape was involved, but I don’t know if there’s an equivalent word in Spanish to “molest”. “Me abuso” works as well. Is it wrong that I giggled slightly at the missing Ó? For non-speakers: Me violo = I rape myself; me violó = he/she/it raped me. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/17 "2009-10-27T04:08:14Z")
> [@Uncertain](#): > > _Vuestra_ is second-person _plural_, like _vous_ in French. I’m not sure why just using the plural wasn’t formal enough in Spanish, as it was in French. Vuestra is neither plural nor a personal pronoun. It is the singular second person form of a possessive pronoun. Vos and vosotros are the other singular and plural second person personal pronouns. They’re used in some dialects of Spanish, but not used or heard in other areas unless it is in elementary school with a strict teacher teaching them all the conjugations (_shudders remembering those times_). ---
**Author:** ![Uncertain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Uncertain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncertain)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/18 "2009-10-27T06:06:44Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Vuestra is neither plural nor a personal pronoun. It is the singular second person form of a possessive pronoun. Vos and vosotros are the other singular and plural second person personal pronouns. They’re used in some dialects of Spanish, but not used or heard in other areas unless it is in elementary school with a strict teacher teaching them all the conjugations (_shudders remembering those times_). _Vuestra_ is plural in the same sense that _vosotros_ is plural. The fact that people were saying _vuestra merced_ (your (plural) mercy) rather than _tu merced_ (your (singular) mercy) suggests that they were using the second person plural as a sign of respect (this would be similar to the royal “we”). So _vosotros_ could have become the formal “you” in Spanish, much as _vous_ became the formal “you” in French (and _you_, the plural of _thee_, became the formal “you” in English). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Piranha_Brothers)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/19 "2009-10-27T08:25:27Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Spanish question Was I the only one who misread that for “Spanish Inquisition”? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145/20 "2009-10-27T10:32:52Z")
> [@Uncertain](#): > > _Vuestra_ is plural in the same sense that _vosotros_ is plural. The fact that people were saying _vuestra merced_ (your (plural) mercy) rather than _tu merced_ (your (singular) mercy) suggests that they were using the second person plural as a sign of respect (this would be similar to the royal “we”). So _vosotros_ could have become the formal “you” in Spanish, much as _vous_ became the formal “you” in French (and _you_, the plural of _thee_, became the formal “you” in English). Don’t make me go to the [Real Academia Española](http://www.rae.es) on you. [Entry for vuestra](http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=vuestra): > [@](#): > > 1. pron. poses. Formas de 2.ª persona, de idéntica índole gramatical que la de nuestro. U. t. c. n. con la terminación m. sing. En sus cuatro formas puede referirse también a un solo poseedor cuando, por ficción que el uso autoriza, se aplica plural a una sola persona; p. ej., vuestro consejo, hablando a un monarca. U. también para referirse a un solo individuo en ciertos tratamientos, como vuestra Beatitud, vuestra Majestad. En el tratamiento de vos, se refiere indistintamente a uno solo o a dos o más poseedores; p. ej., vuestra casa, dirigiéndose a una persona sola o a dos o más. Summary: Second person possessive pronoun, used when the following noun is singular (so a singular pronoun). Of course, the following noun, although singular, can be talking about more than one person. So no, vuestra is not plural in the same sense as vosotros. The singular for vosotros is vos. The “tu” in “tu merced” is the possessive pronoun different from the “tú” second person personal pronoun. It’s not differentiated in pronunciation but it is differentiated gramatically by the accent mark. And only some countries in Latin America (and I’m guessing some parts of Spain) use “vos/vosotros” in regular speech. The others just keep using the tu/usted forms. And I think there was a thread recently talking about regional differences in the use of those two pronouns. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-no-molesten-do-not-disturb-hotel-doorknob-tags/515145.md?page=2)