# Spanish question: "y" and "e" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 4, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-y-and-e/440079 "2008-03-04T19:39:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-y-and-e/440079/1 "2008-03-04T19:39:01Z")
As I understand it, _y_ (“and”) in Spanish changes to _e_ only when it precedes the vowel sound _i-_ or _hi-_. Why, then, is Rolando Villazón’s new album called [_Cielo e mar_](http://www.amazon.com/Cielo-e-Mar-Rolando-Villazon/dp/B0011NO9N4) and not _Cielo y mar_? The title is in Spanish, right? He’s Mexican. I had thought the title might be in Italian, but “sea” is _mare_ in Italian, not _mar_. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-y-and-e/440079/2 "2008-03-04T19:44:19Z")
Never mind, looks like it is in Italian after all, named after an aria in _La Gioconda_ which features on the album. Still a spelling mistake if you ask me, though - _mar_ ain’t in any Italian dictionary I can find! ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-y-and-e/440079/3 "2008-03-04T21:20:34Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] Never mind, looks like it is in Italian after all, named after an aria in _La Gioconda_ which features on the album. Still a spelling mistake if you ask me, though - _mar_ ain’t in any Italian dictionary I can find! [/QUOTE] You may wish to take it up with Arrigo Boito, the librettist for the opera _La Gioconda_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JR\_Brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JR\_Brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JR_Brown)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-y-and-e/440079/4 "2008-03-04T21:30:44Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] As I understand it, _y_ (“and”) in Spanish changes to _e_ only when it precedes the vowel sound _i-_ or _hi-_. Why, then, is Rolando Villazón’s new album called [_Cielo e mar_](http://www.amazon.com/Cielo-e-Mar-Rolando-Villazon/dp/B0011NO9N4) and not _Cielo y mar_? The title is in Spanish, right? He’s Mexican. I had thought the title might be in Italian, but “sea” is _mare_ in Italian, not _mar_. [/QUOTE] My impression from living in Mexico is that whatever the offical grammar prescription is, the actual usage of y, e or even i (with a diacricital I don’t know how to render here), is pretty arbitrary, tending towards “y with everything”. For example, “padres y hijos” (“parents and children” or “fathers and sons”) is probably more common than “padres e hijos”. JRB ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-y-and-e/440079/5 "2008-03-05T14:44:05Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] I had thought the title might be in Italian, but “sea” is _mare_ in Italian, not _mar_. [/QUOTE] It’s pretty common in Italian to drop the final vowel or even entire syllables. It can be part of a regional dialect (the Venetian dialect is prone to this - that’s why you have the _Ca’ d’oro_ in Venice, and not the _Casa de oro_ as it would be called in proper Italian), or poetic license if the author needs to shorten the word to fit the rhythm. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-question-y-and-e/440079/6 "2008-03-05T14:54:21Z")
[QUOTE=JR Brown] My impression from living in Mexico is that whatever the offical grammar prescription is, the actual usage of y, e or even i (with a diacricital I don’t know how to render here), is pretty arbitrary, tending towards “y with everything”. For example, “padres y hijos” (“parents and children” or “fathers and sons”) is probably more common than “padres e hijos”. JRB [/QUOTE] Only for people who haven’t realized how bad it sounds. Usually those same people think that the plural of “el águila” is “los águilas” or, conversely, that the singular _must_ be “la águila” and those of us who say “el águila” don’t know our grammar. The reason to say “padres e hijos” or “el águila” is that it’s easier to pronounce correctly and without mushing the words together than the regular version. To pronounce this one correctly, you need to mark a stop that isn’t a part of normal phrase flow. I’ve encountered the over-regular versions much more often in writing than spoken, although just last week a reporter on Spanish TV said “los aguas”. It’s just a case of “overcompensated poshness”, same as the people whose dialect of Spanish doesn’t distinguish S from Z and who write a Z/C where an S should be (Hortencia instead of Hortensia).