Are you implying that therefore less money is spent on making sure the software is upgraded, checked, and maintained?
I’m saying that often the wrong hardware and software is chosen in the first place and for all the wrong reasons or set wrong, but hey, proper forms are followed.
Unsurprisingly, one of the guys at the controls of the train has a history of driving it very fast and posting speedometer photos on his Facebook page.
I’m surprised a train meant to travel at 80 km/h has the power to reach 220 km/h. Isn’t that speed high speed train territory?
The track is the track for the high speed train. One of my questions above was, how come a track that’s been laid down recently and specifically designed for the high speed train has such a curve. Alvias have a screen that lists outside temp, time, next station, speed: on normal tracks they range around 170-200 routinely.
Oh, so it was a kind of high speed train, not the metro variety.
I was looking at the location on Google Maps. Here it is. Initially I was wondering why the train crashed here when there are much tighter curves immediately beforehand (the train was coming in from the southeast). But you can see on the aerial pictures the new tracks under construction. Apparently that section opened in December 2011. If you look at the Street View images (dated September 2011) you can see work almost finished on the new tracks.
It looks to me as though this is the exact spot where the new, straight, high-speed line joins the old, existing line with the tight bends. Bad news.
If you switch from “satellite” to map mode, you can see exactly where the new tracks are. The new high-speed line runs through a series of tunnels, almost straight, and then emerge from the last tunnel and onto this tight curve which leads into the center of the city.
It looks like this curve is only 2 or 3 miles away from Santiago station. Even if the driver was being completely reckless, I don’t see how he expected to stop in time. I do wonder if there was some kind of equipment failure.
The train itself is a proper high-speed train with a top speed of 250 km/h. The 80 km/h limit is the speed limit for this particular section of the track, owing to this very tight curve.
Not that it’s relevant to the cause of the accident, but the train is a variant of the RENFE Class-130 with Talgo passenger cars, and is one of the more unique trains in the world. Talgo cars tilt into curves to negotiate it at higher speeds and to improve passenger comfort. Their wheels aren’t mounted on solid axles, they are individually suspended. And these wheels can be moved sideways to run on different width tracks, because Spain uses a different gauge than the rest of Europe. The 730 variant (the one that crashed) has diesel generator cars added to it, so it can run on diesel power as well as electric.
Amtrak uses Talgo passenger cars on their Cascades route. Completely different locomotive though, and obviously no need for the variable gauge feature, but otherwise similar design.
This is slightly misleading. The driver wasn’t speeding to make up time. Rather, he was on the com system with the conductor, trying to get him to overlook mistakes he made earlier (platform overruns that caused delays). He was distracted by the conversation and was late in applying the brakes before the curve.
This type of train has an unusual feature in the design of the carriages, they only have wheels at one end, the other end is linked and supported by the wheels of the previous carriage. It will be interesting to see if this had any effect on the crash, but the reality is that if one set of wheels jumps the tracks then it is certain that two carriages will be derailed - will then dig in the ground even more suddenly than might have happened in a more conventional design.
Eh, articulated train sets aren’t that uncommon. They’re quieter and more efficient, and are even used in freight service (platform cars for containers, among others.)
And really, in a passenger train derailment it’s more likely that the couplers will be the main factor in derailing multiple cars–they’re of a different design than freight couplers, and it’s pretty rare for them to release.
I’ve heard the claim that articulated trains (called Jacobs bogies) are safer than conventional design because they’re less likely to jacknife when a wheel derails. Some claim that Eschede train disaster wouldn’t have happened to an articulated train. I believe only Alstom in France makes high-speed trains with Jacobs bogies (TGV and Eurostar).
The Talgo isn’t technically a Jacobs bogie, but I imagine it has similar advantages and disadvantages.
The face of this tragedy has been the superb reaction of the gallegos, the cross is how many groups are already doing their best to point the shitfan at each other. A few things from today’s newspapers and news:
- it’s a difficult spot and one where drivers have to slow from 200 to 80 in a short space. Thing is, this particular driver had taken it about 60 times, so it’s not as if he didn’t know the curve was there.
- he liked to go above expected speeds and post pic of his speedometer to facebook (this came up within minutes of the accident).
- neither of the two control systems autobrakes unless the train is going above 200 (the information doesn’t say for areas at which posted speed). Not the cheaper one used in that spot, but not the other one either.
- while there are records of reckless behavior on this driver’s part (and others, including others with speedometer pics in facebook), nobody tracked them.
- dude’s taking the fifth. Yeah, like that’s going to help you, even if you didn’t happen to be in the wrong country for it.
His head is going to roll, the question is which others will.
How, precisely, does the engineer know what the speed limit is on a section of track? (Is it just a visual sign like on highways, or is the information electronically communicated to the train–and if so is there an auditory alarm or flashing light if speeding or if the speed limit changes…)
There are visual signs, of course, and also the track has a series of “beacons” (for lack of a better term) that send information to the train. At the very least (with the oldest track systems still in use), the train gives auditory and visual warnings by means of a series of computer screens.
Here you can see a photo (taken while the train was stopped in a station, of course!) of the driver’s post in a similar train (Alvia 130 series). No less than 2 computer screens, another one that appears to show some kind of CCTV image, and what looks like a data terminal.
this train had a speedometer display in the passenger cars. if they knew the track or could see signs they would know the speed limit in that area. being scared shit-less before you’re about to die.
Nope, people hadn’t noticed anything amiss about the speed: the speed was normal for that train, although not for that bit. They were entering the slow-speed part.
Most passengers won’t look at signs anyway, and even if you try to, from a side window the signs just zoom past. Train station name-signs are supposed to be readable from a side window and you can only recognize them by an educated guess, at that speed.
Wonder what he was clocking in that turn in previous runs. Also wondering what the other driver was or was not doing.
" The driver, Francisco Jose Garzon Amo, was talking on the phone to an official of national rail company Renfe when the crash happened and apparently was consulting a paper document at the time, the statement said… The driver received a call on his work phone in the cabin, not his personal cellphone, to tell him what approach to take toward his final destination. The Renfe employee on the telephone “appears to be a controller,” the statement said."
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2013/07/30/world/europe/ap-eu-spain-train-derailment-.html
" The driver of a Spanish train that derailed, killing 79 people, ignored three warnings to reduce speed in the two minutes before the train hurtled off the tracks on a treacherous curve, crash investigators said Friday."