# Spanish: using articles before names. Rude? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 15, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190 "2009-04-15T17:13:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/1 "2009-04-15T17:13:46Z")
For example: “La Juana”. I always thought this was very insulting and used only to put people down. Or at least an ignorant thing to do. (Venezuela) Now I read a book (from Spain) where a character used it to refer to his love interest (La Bernarda in “La Sombra del Viento” by Carlos Ruiz Zafon, good read), so I guess it is not universally insulting. Is it acceptable use in any region? ---
**Author:** ![fandango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5ac83/32.png) [@fandango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fandango)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/2 "2009-04-15T18:08:45Z")
Most dialects of Arpitan (Franco-Provençal) prefix female names with the feminine definite article. Not male names, however. In that case I expect prefixing a male name would be a little insulting (like calling somebody a girlie-man!) Can’t speak for Spanish, though. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/3 "2009-04-15T18:24:22Z")
Or El Guapo. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/4 "2009-04-15T18:36:04Z")
Its not insulting _per se_ but can be considered familiar or vulgar, for example you wouldnt talk about your boss Joseph as “El José” (at least where he can hear you), but your sister could be informally refered to as “La Vero”, it is somewhat considered to be a lower class thing though. El Frodo. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/5 "2009-04-16T00:41:25Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > Or El Guapo. At the risk of having been whooshed, El Guapo is a sobriquet or epithet, not a name. Guapo is not a man’s name. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/6 "2009-04-16T00:47:49Z")
Haven’t seen it done in PR Spanish, but my Mexican friend used to sometimes call me la KarlGrenze… at least until I told him to stop that since I found it weird (the other option, mi KarlGrenze, is still accepted). And at random times other Mexicans have used “la KarlGrenze”. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/7 "2009-04-16T00:54:07Z")
Good point about gender. I don’t think I have ever heard it for male names. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/8 "2009-04-16T00:55:37Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > At the risk of having been whooshed, El Guapo is a sobriquet or epithet, not a name. Guapo is not a man’s name. As a completely pointless footnote, Burger King in some Latin American countries is not the home of the Whopper, but “La Casa del Guapo” ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/9 "2009-04-16T08:32:21Z")
In Greek, the definite article goes before everyone’s name, e.g. _i Melina_, _o Yanni_. It has no connotation, it’s just the way names are used. In Italian, women artists and celebrities are sometimes named with the feminine definite article _la_ before their surname. E.g. “La Ciccone” seems to be a popular phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/10 "2009-04-16T08:50:44Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > Or El Guapo. Would you say I have a plethora of pinatas? ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/11 "2009-04-16T09:28:06Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > In Greek, the definite article goes before everyone’s name, e.g. _i Melina_, _o Yanni_. It has no connotation, it’s just the way names are used. > > In Italian, women artists and celebrities are sometimes named with the feminine definite article _la_ before their surname. E.g. “La Ciccone” seems to be a popular phrase. German does this too: \*Ich habe gerade mit \*\*dem \*\*Hans gesprochen; Hast du \*\*den \*\*Hans gesehen? \*\*Der \*\*Hans ist nach Hause gegangen. \*(I just spoke to Hans; did you see Hans; Hans went home.) Of course, der/dem/den could be left out but to put it in here is not insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/12 "2009-04-16T11:30:43Z")
Dunno about Spanish, but in French, calling someone “La Jeanne” or “Le Jean” is quite a rustic turn of phrase. Not rude at all, but you know… rustic, or lower class. You’ll never hear a city dweller use it - I figure it’s the equivalent of calling someone “our Ron” in English. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/13 "2009-04-16T15:24:07Z")
In Spain it’s basically a matter of familiarity: - there can be only one and the whole world knows who it is. La Bardot. El Banderas. And yes, it’s for both males and females. - although there is more than one in the whole of history, the speaker still expects his audience to recognize which one he’s speaking of. When I talk to my mother about “Edu,” she know’s it’s not my brother, when I say el Edu she knows it’s my brother (Gramps is also an Eduardo, but we call him El Jovenet, The Youngster in Catalan). ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/14 "2009-04-16T16:05:31Z")
I noticed this in Italy to (specifically in the North East, Veneto, region) it was quite common to say “La Elena” “La Manu” “La Laura” “La Rossella” when talking about female friends but there was no male equivalent. There was nothing pejorative implied and in fact when you become “La + name” you know you’re in with the locals ! ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/15 "2009-04-17T05:36:31Z")
Why would someone do this anyway? Is there any English equivalent to this (besides “The Todd” on _Scrubs_)? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/16 "2009-04-17T10:35:30Z")
To make it somewhat clear they’re talking about one specific person, would be my guess. And since they’re adding other languages to this comparison, the same thing (adding a definite article before the name) is done in Portuguese, in both sexes (at least in Brazil). ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/17 "2009-04-17T11:18:50Z")
> [@jasonh300](#): > > Why would someone do this anyway? Is there any English equivalent to this (besides “The Todd” on _Scrubs_)? Considering that I have almost always seen it used when talking about servants, it sounds like objectifying the person. You have the vacuum cleaner, the mop and the Maria to clean your house. Clearly this is not the case everywhere going by the responses here. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/18 "2009-04-17T20:47:29Z")
> [@jasonh300](#): > > Why would someone do this anyway? Is there any English equivalent to this (besides “The Todd” on _Scrubs_)? “[The Donald](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump#Personal_life).” (Spoken by someone whose native language lacks the definite article) ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/19 "2009-04-17T21:12:58Z")
Thanks for posting the link to that Wikipedia article **Johanna**. From a link it contained, I learned that there is actually a patent on a particular kind of [combover](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comb_over) Ignorance has been fought! ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190/20 "2009-04-18T01:24:26Z")
In Peru it is the norm in Arequipa and common, when referring to family/friends, in the Andes and jungle. Both huys and dolls. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-using-articles-before-names-rude/493190.md?page=2)