# Spanish world cup crowd - Confederate flag?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [June 19, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352 "2006-06-19T20:55:56Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/1 "2006-06-19T20:55:56Z")
I’m sure I saw a fairly large Confederate flag being waved among the Spanish fans at tonight’s game. Was I (a) imagining it, (b) seeing another flag with a blue saltire with white decoration on a red background, or © actually seeing a Confederate flag? If ©, then why?
(I’ve put this in Cafe Society in the hope that there’s a sport-related answer…if not, then maybe it should be in GQ…oh, I don’t know…)
---
### Author:  [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/2 "2006-06-19T21:23:06Z")
I thought I saw it too. I was thinking the same thing.
---
### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/3 "2006-06-19T21:38:36Z")
OK, extra option: was I (d) in some spooky transcontinental brain correspondence with **Kid\_A**? 😛
---
### Author:  [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/4 "2006-06-19T21:39:57Z")
FIFA is working to combat this, but there’s a [contingent](http://sports.bostonherald.com/soccer/view.bg?articleid=142865&format=text) of racist fans in the European nations, usually attached to certain teams in certain leagues. Some of those teams are in Spain and obviously some of those idiot fans got into the match with their flag. Yes, their stupid racist fucks have seized on the Confederate flag as a racist symbol like our stupid racist fucks have on Nazi symbols.
---
### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/5 "2006-06-19T21:47:36Z")
Oh, OK, fuckwit fascist ultras, that would make sense…now I think about it, I guess they realised they could carry a huge Confederate flag rolled up, and nobody would realise what it was until they unfurled it. And my thread proves that it worked. :S
---
### Author:  [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/6 "2006-06-19T23:41:56Z")
Hang on, I’m confused. We’ve been told over and over that the confederate flag doesn’t stand for racism, it stands for pride in Southern culture and heritage… why would Spanish fans want to show pride in Southern culture and heritage?
---
### Author:  [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/7 "2006-06-20T00:26:36Z")
They must be from southern Spain.
---
### Author:  [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/8 "2006-06-20T00:58:26Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#):
>
> Hang on, I’m confused. We’ve been told over and over that the confederate flag doesn’t stand for racism, it stands for pride in Southern culture and heritage… why would Spanish fans want to show pride in Southern culture and heritage?
And that it represents Southern American pride and culture is correct. If Nazis use a cross does that make moot all the positive tenets of Christianity?
---
### Author:  [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2006, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/9 "2006-06-20T09:43:20Z")
> [@Number](#):
>
> They must be from southern Spain.
Well, every year a bunch of people in southern Spain do [dress up](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Week_procession) like [this](http://www.skunk.co.uk/images/lifestyle/art/photography/bcurtis/Semana-Santa.jpg), so maybe the racist football fans just got confused…
---
### Author:  [@Don\_Logan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Logan)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2006, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/10 "2006-06-20T13:27:09Z")
These are probably the same fans who make monkey noises and throw bananas at Barcelona striker Samule Eto’o. :rolleyes:
---
### Author:  [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/11 "2006-06-20T16:57:56Z")
> [@brownie55](#):
>
> And that it represents Southern American pride and culture is correct. If Nazis use a cross does that make moot all the positive tenets of Christianity?
Well, that’s one question to ask. Another might be… if a bunch of native Americans decide that they want to start wearing swastikas on their clothing, because after all, the swastika was a native American symbol long before Hitler, and claim, perhaps completely honestly, that they are doing so purely out of pride in their heritage, should they act all offended and surprised and self-righteous when people respond negatively?
---
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2006, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/12 "2006-06-20T17:37:24Z")
The match was between Spain and Tunisia, by the way. I looked it up on the off chance that it would clear anything up, although I doubt it does.
---
### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/13 "2006-06-20T19:57:12Z")
> [@duality72](#):
>
> FIFA is working to combat this, but there’s a [contingent](http://sports.bostonherald.com/soccer/view.bg?articleid=142865&format=text) of racist fans in the European nations, usually attached to certain teams in certain leagues. Some of those teams are in Spain and obviously some of those idiot fans got into the match with their flag. Yes, their stupid racist fucks have seized on the Confederate flag as a racist symbol like our stupid racist fucks have on Nazi symbols.
Yeah, I saw this the other day too, but I doubt **duality72** ’s WAG. I’ve seen a dozen or more reports on racism and the World Cup, and have not yet seen a rebel flag in any of them. Don’t really know what to make of it without some a better cite from **duality72**.
---
### Author:  [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/14 "2006-06-20T20:10:19Z")
So are Tunisians supposed to be offended by the confederate flag? How many would even know what it is?
---
### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/15 "2006-06-20T22:16:00Z")
> [@Captain Lance Murdoch](#):
>
> So are Tunisians supposed to be offended by the confederate flag? How many would even know what it is?
Nah, when it comes to massed flag-waving, the identity of the opposition has nothing to do with it. Except when it’s a particuarly hated opponent, in which case this just means more banners.
---
### Author:  [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/16 "2006-06-20T22:35:14Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#):
>
> Well, that’s one question to ask. Another might be… if a bunch of native Americans decide that they want to start wearing swastikas on their clothing, because after all, the swastika was a native American symbol long before Hitler, and claim, perhaps completely honestly, that they are doing so purely out of pride in their heritage, should they act all offended and surprised and self-righteous when people respond negatively?
I don’t know.
---
### Author:  [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2006, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/17 "2006-06-20T23:15:14Z")
> [@Captain Lance Murdoch](#):
>
> So are Tunisians supposed to be offended by the confederate flag? How many would even know what it is?
Hey, don’t tick off those Tunisian fans, man. They’re worse than us Cleveland fans. 😃
---
### Author:  [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/18 "2006-06-20T23:42:36Z")
Another _possible_ explanation: I worked with a South American guy once (I think he was from Chile), and he had a big Confederate flag symbol sewed on his backpack. I asked him about it one time, and after a bit of confusion (his English was none too good and my Spanish was pretty non-existant) he explained that he had it on because he was a fan of “The Dukes of Hazzard”! Apparently they still played reruns all the time in Chile, and it was a big hit there. I asked him if he was aware of the possible racial connotations, and he just waved those concerns away. As far as I could tell, he viewed the flag as a symbol of fun, good-ol’ boys, Daisy Duke, and rebellion.
Maybe similar interpretations of the flag have been exported to other countries as well – not necessarily through “The Dukes of Hazzard,” but through other aspects of American pop culture as well. I’m not saying this is so, but it’s a possibility.
---
### Author:  [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2006, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/19 "2006-06-21T01:33:00Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#):
>
> Hang on, I’m confused. We’ve been told over and over that the confederate flag doesn’t stand for racism, it stands for pride in Southern culture and heritage… why would Spanish fans want to show pride in Southern culture and heritage?
Because their intent is racism, that means the Southern intent must be racist too? That’s twisted logic.
---
### Author:  [@Don\_Logan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Logan)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2006, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352/20 "2006-06-21T02:08:49Z")
Can’t recall the teams or the history involved, but there are fans of one Italian team who, when they play against this other Italian team, will bring Nazi flags, shout Nazi slogans, etc. because the second Italian city was the site of an infamous Nazi massacre. This is not nation vs nation, this is within the same country! American fans who think the NBA Ron Artest brawl was the worst thing have no idea what real hooliganism is…
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-world-cup-crowd-confederate-flag/361352.md?page=2)