# Spare the rod & spoil the child **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 29, 2006, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174 "2006-11-29T05:19:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/1 "2006-11-29T05:19:42Z")
Is this meant to be a warning or advice? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/2 "2006-11-29T05:30:17Z")
I’ve always heard it as advice. From a bible search website ( [http://www.biblegateway.com](http://www.biblegateway.com) ), King James version: Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Proverbs 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/3 "2006-11-29T05:47:28Z")
Advice you mean. Thanks, now I know how to handle my kids. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/4 "2006-11-29T05:56:59Z")
[QUOTE=Inigo Montoya] Is this meant to be a warning or advice? [/QUOTE] It’s advice by means of warning. It is warning you that if you spare the rod, you will end up spoiling your child. The implicit advice here is “Don’t spare the rod.” -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Puzzler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d07c76/32.png) [@Puzzler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Puzzler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/5 "2006-11-29T07:17:43Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] It’s advice by means of warning. It is warning you that if you spare the rod, you will end up spoiling your child. The implicit advice here is “Don’t spare the rod.” -FrL- [/QUOTE] I second that. The Hebrew equivalent reads “He who spares his rod, hates his son”. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/6 "2006-11-29T07:33:29Z")
Well **that’s** news. I had always thought it was a Biblical injunction against artificial insemination. Testy ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/7 "2006-11-29T09:41:03Z")
And I always thought, anyways, it’s not meant to whack your poor kids with a switch. Spare _discipline_ and spoil the child. Let 'em run wild, and they will be just that. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/8 "2006-11-29T11:07:41Z")
I had a friend, but Jesus got him. He was a nice, gentle guy before that. He figured that the Bible told he had to hit his son, because his son didn’t always do what he said. I tried to talk him out of it, but he said the Bible was always right. Turned out his son had Aspergers syndrome, he wasn’t being bad, just didn’t always understand what he was being asked to do … the son never spoke to the father again. Nor have I. Let Jesus have him, J’s got more forgiveness than me, I’ll never forgive him for that. w. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/9 "2006-11-29T11:32:08Z")
[QUOTE=if6was9] And I always thought, anyways, it’s not meant to whack your poor kids with a switch. Spare _discipline_ and spoil the child. Let 'em run wild, and they will be just that. [/QUOTE] Yes, it is my understanding that the ‘rod’ referred to is the shepherd’s rod, which is used to _guide_, not whack. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/10 "2006-11-29T12:56:52Z")
[QUOTE=F. U. Shakespeare] Yes, it is my understanding that the ‘rod’ referred to is the shepherd’s rod, which is used to _guide_, not whack. [/QUOTE] I think it does mean rod as in a switch, to beat someone with. But the point is that you have to discipline your children, or else they’ll grow up spoiled and, well, undisciplined. It sounds obvious, but there are tons of parents out there who apparently never followed this advice. Also, current research suggests that it doesn’t really matter whether you use corporal punishment or another method, so long as your punishments are reasonable (that is, not excessively harsh, and not given for things that aren’t really the kid’s fault) and consistant (you can’t let the kid get away with something some times and not others). ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/11 "2006-11-29T14:39:16Z")
DALE: Spanking was wrong then and it’s wrong now. I say spare the rod and spoil the child! HANK: Dale, “spare the rod and spoil the child” means you’re in favor of spanking. DALE: I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/12 "2006-11-29T16:48:06Z")
Proverbs 22:15 (King James Version) _15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him._ That’s what was inscribed on the paddle at the Christian school I attended. (Along with a drawing of a wailing child.) ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/13 "2006-11-29T18:35:04Z")
I interpreted the OP question to be asking whether it’s a warning (if you spare the rod, you’ll spoil the child, which is undesirable) or advice (you should spare the rod and likewise spoil the child). It’s a warning - it’s not advising spoiling children. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/14 "2006-11-29T18:42:11Z")
That’s exactly how I interpreted the question, so yes - warning, not advice! ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/15 "2006-11-29T19:17:27Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] Proverbs 22:15 (King James Version) _15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him._ That’s what was inscribed on the paddle at the Christian school I attended. (Along with a drawing of a wailing child.) [/QUOTE] Damn, **Lissa.** What kind of school was that? Sounds like some pretty muscular Christians there. Testy ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2006, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/16 "2006-11-30T00:04:21Z")
[QUOTE=Testy] Damn, **Lissa.** What kind of school was that? Sounds like some pretty muscular Christians there. Testy [/QUOTE] It was a “non-denominational” Christian school, but it leaned heavily toward Baptist. I estimate an average of one child paddled per day. Since the building only had 3/4 walls, we could hear it loud and clear: the smack of the paddle and then a shriek from the child. There was one little boy who had mental problems. He wasn’t a bad kid. He just had very poor impulse control and learning disabilites. The principal seemed determined to paddle it out of him. He would scream whenever he saw her coming and she litterally had to drag him into the room where punishments were dispensed. Shockingly, this firm approach didn’t work and he was eventually expelled as being too beligerant for the school to handle. Paddlings were dispensed for incredibly minor infractions. I was once ordered to be paddled by the principal because I had walked up to a jukebox in a pizza resturant. (Didn’t play anything, but I looked at the song titles and that was bad enough. I wasn’t paddled, though. My mom put a stop to it.) Things which wouldn’t even merit a detention in a normal school were treated as a despicable outrage. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2006, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/17 "2006-11-30T07:38:37Z")
[QUOTE=F. U. Shakespeare] Yes, it is my understanding that the ‘rod’ referred to is the shepherd’s rod, which is used to _guide_, not whack. [/QUOTE] I agree. It’s not beating my child needs, but “rails” or guidelines. If you’ve ever known a child from a household with lax rules, you will understand the need for kids to have these ‘rails’. It makes them feel safe, and loved. Hence, “thy rod and staff comfort me”. It gives a child borders against the crazy insane outside world. ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2006, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/18 "2006-11-30T09:02:14Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] It was a “non-denominational” Christian school, but it leaned heavily toward Baptist. I estimate an average of one child paddled per day. Since the building only had 3/4 walls, we could hear it loud and clear: the smack of the paddle and then a shriek from the child. There was one little boy who had mental problems. He wasn’t a bad kid. He just had very poor impulse control and learning disabilites. The principal seemed determined to paddle it out of him. He would scream whenever he saw her coming and she litterally had to drag him into the room where punishments were dispensed. Shockingly, this firm approach didn’t work and he was eventually expelled as being too beligerant for the school to handle. Paddlings were dispensed for incredibly minor infractions. I was once ordered to be paddled by the principal because I had walked up to a jukebox in a pizza resturant. (Didn’t play anything, but I looked at the song titles and that was bad enough. I wasn’t paddled, though. My mom put a stop to it.) Things which wouldn’t even merit a detention in a normal school were treated as a despicable outrage. [/QUOTE] Goddamn. Where/when was this? And are these people safely tucked into a small padded room where they can be insane on their own time? ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2006, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/19 "2006-11-30T15:18:07Z")
[QUOTE=Pullet] Goddamn. Where/when was this? And are these people safely tucked into a small padded room where they can be insane on their own time? [/QUOTE] It was in the Midwest, and I graduated in 1996. As far as I know, they’re still in business. ---
**Author:** ![Lobelia\_Overhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@Lobelia\_Overhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobelia_Overhill)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174/20 "2006-11-30T15:26:37Z")
[QUOTE=intention] I had a friend, but Jesus got him. He was a nice, gentle guy before that. He figured that the Bible told he had to hit his son, because his son didn’t always do what he said. I tried to talk him out of it, but he said the Bible was always right. Turned out his son had Aspergers syndrome, he wasn’t being bad, just didn’t always understand what he was being asked to do … the son never spoke to the father again. Nor have I. Let Jesus have him, J’s got more forgiveness than me, I’ll never forgive him for that. [/QUOTE] Amen… \people who read the fecking Bible shouldn’t be allowed to have kids\ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child/382174.md?page=2)