# Speaking Elvish for Pentecost **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 17, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235 "2012-05-17T18:14:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/81 "2016-05-15T19:11:09Z")
Don’t have a recording of that, but will this do, instead…? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nam%C3%A1ri%C3%AB ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/82 "2016-05-15T19:18:04Z")
We just had French, German and Spanish, but it was my first time experiencing this. I loved it. ---
**Author:** ![Commodore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Commodore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commodore)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/83 "2016-05-16T00:58:30Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > There is no explanation that I know of for the “gibberish” as you call it. It’s just as you said, what people heard was their own languages. So a dozen different people could have heard on the the apostles speaking, and they each would have heard something different. > > When we do the different languages thing at Pentecost it’s an attempt to imitate that. > > In 1 Corinthians 12:10, when speaking of spiritual gifts, it says some have the gift of language and some of interpreting language. So I think that those who “speak in tongues” that we can’t understand, may, according to some beliefs, be inspired by the Spirit and someone should be able to know what they are talking about. > > Confusing enough?😛 > > I had a good time yesterday, when I spoke the Pentecost passages in Korean. As far as I know there were no actual native speakers of it in church, and that may be a good thing, I’m sure my delivery would have been laughed at. I wished we could have had a speaker of an African language, we had European and Asian though. I did hear a local Lutheran church is in the process of calling a pastor who is from Madagascar though, a pity we couldn’t have grabbed him for the one morning. I do not believe they are speaking a different language at all, as in some people think they are talking German or double Dutch or anything like that, but just only truly speaking as their native tongue and all. It’s all about understanding what one is trying to convey, because Tongues are for people who are trying to understand Christianity, not one who knows in depth. Because Christianity is of the Holy Spirit and not of the worldly and it’s this that makes it hard for one to come too truly comprehend, when does not have the fullness of the gravity of the Holy Spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/84 "2016-05-16T01:33:04Z")
The only additional languages we were able to scrounge up this morning were Spanish and German. I blame the public schools. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/85 "2016-05-16T04:16:51Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > The only additional languages we were able to scrounge up this morning were Spanish and German. I blame the public schools. What you might try, for next year, and if you have a university nearby, is inviting “guest linguists” There ought to be at least some foreign students around. Our two African linguist, and the Tamil speaker, were members of the congregation though, and native speakers of their respective tongues. Oops, so was the German speaker. The Italian speaker, and the Korean speaker(me) were not native speakers. I’ll bet there were other languages out there in your congregation, but some folks are creeped out by speaking in public. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/86 "2016-05-17T05:14:29Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > There is no explanation that I know of for the “gibberish” as you call it. It’s just as you said, what people heard was their own languages. So a dozen different people could have heard on the the apostles speaking, and they each would have heard something different. > > When we do the different languages thing at Pentecost it’s an attempt to imitate that. > > In 1 Corinthians 12:10, when speaking of spiritual gifts, it says some have the gift of language and some of interpreting language. So I think that those who “speak in tongues” that we can’t understand, may, according to some beliefs, be inspired by the Spirit and someone should be able to know what they are talking about. > > Confusing enough?😛 > > I had a good time yesterday, when I spoke the Pentecost passages in Korean. As far as I know there were no actual native speakers of it in church, and that may be a good thing, I’m sure my delivery would have been laughed at. I wished we could have had a speaker of an African language, we had European and Asian though. I did hear a local Lutheran church is in the process of calling a pastor who is from Madagascar though, a pity we couldn’t have grabbed him for the one morning. The tradition of [glossolalia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia), understood as Spirit-inspired language directly from God, was already established in the Church by the middle of the 1st century. Paul addresses it in I Corinthians 12:10 when he identifies it as a gift of the Spirit–as well as following that with a separate gift of the ability of one person to interpret the speaking of another person. He distinguishes, in I Corinthians, 13:1, between human language and angelic language. The Gospel of Mark also recognizes the phenomenon with a reference in verse 16:17. It is probable that when Luke wanted to identify the actions of the Apostles at Pentecost with the power of the Holy Spirit, he chose a parallel phrase to describe what they did, however, it was a different action, completely: the Apostles were not engaged in glossolalia, (unless one chooses to believe that they were speaking in glossolalia while the Spirit caused their audience to understand them in their own languages. Interestingly, I have not encountered anyone who put forth that explanation.) Most commentators just note that the actions were different. ---
**Author:** ![Elemenopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5e925/32.png) [@Elemenopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elemenopy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/87 "2016-05-17T06:36:13Z")
T\*\*\*hat being said, it is common a Papal Masses, especially at Christmas and Pentecost to have each of the intercessory prayers read in a different language by a whole bunch of folk. \*\*\* Wow, I’ve never heard of that. I was brought up (somewhat lackadaisically) in Eastern Orthodox Christianity, so if I were to offer up any tongues, it would be in Serbian. Ironically (?) most of the phrases I know are very religious OR somewhat profane. Not much in between. As a sidenote, I’ve been really wanting to start going back to church, but there’s nothing Orthodox near here. The closet, as far as I can tell, is Episcopalian/CoE/maybe Lutheran, but I had the impression that they were the last ones to encourage the (to me) skanky “speaking in tongues”. In other words, if I was impelled to participate in such an event, I guess you’d get some random Old Church Slavonic, and maybe a bit of Serbian profanity. Don’t ask (unless you are really curious–it’s much nastier than any English profanity I’ve ever heard). However, I have been impelled to participate in some charismatic rituals, and I have survived by repeating the Lord’s prayer in OC Slavonic till left alone. That was at a Catholic offshoot church. Again–where are the Episcopalians doing this brand of nonsense?! It doesn’t follow… ---
**Author:** ![Elemenopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5e925/32.png) [@Elemenopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elemenopy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/88 "2016-05-17T06:47:36Z")
Edit again: I’ve heard of Baptists joshing the Methodists poking the Catholic and Presbyterians, but nobody really addresses the snake-handling, tongue-speaking, charismatic churches. Even in the South. I have quite a bit of half-assed anthro-sociological theory about this, but don’t know quite where to begin to discuss in a useful way. 😕 (PS Sorry, I got hung up on the 5 minute-editing rule, plus typing one-handed while feeding a baby, --hope my continuation isn’t too obnoxious… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/89 "2016-05-17T11:11:51Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Awesome! > > You could consider substituting Onda for Peter, since Onda means stone in Quenya. > > Let’s hear how it’s received, after the event! Gonn or gond would be more appropriate (rock)…that’s Sindarin, though. There’s actually a proper name in Quenya for rock: Caliondo. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/90 "2016-05-17T14:51:40Z")
> [@Elemenopy](#): > > Edit again: I’ve heard of Baptists joshing the Methodists poking the Catholic and Presbyterians, but nobody really addresses the snake-handling, tongue-speaking, charismatic churches. Even in the South. I have quite a bit of half-assed anthro-sociological theory about this, but don’t know quite where to begin to discuss in a useful way. 😕 They don’t really ‘compete’ (as it were) for the same believers. Though in my time at a Pentecostal church (Assemblies of God - definitely not snake handling), I came to understand that Southern Baptists and Pentecostals traditionally can’t stand each other (traditionally SBC was cessationist - but that’s slowly changing). ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/91 "2016-05-17T17:45:14Z")
I’d forgotten to mention this practice to my priest before Pentecost, but it turns out I didn’t have to. On Sunday we had the lesson from Acts read aloud at the same time in English, German, Portuguese, Haitian Creole and Gujarati. No Elvish or Klingon though. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/92 "2016-05-17T22:08:02Z")
**Tom** , what makes you think Paul is referring to glossalia, there? Speaking so that everyone can understand you, no matter what language they know, would clearly be a gift. Likewise, so would understanding what anyone says, no matter what language they speak, also be a gift. Why can’t those be the gifts that Paul is describing? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/93 "2016-05-19T04:09:05Z")
It appears to me that Paul in 1 Corinthians really is speaking of glossolalia rather than another language. 1 Corinthians 14 (NIV): > [@](#): > > 22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 **So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?** 24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!” Why would an unbeliever think someone was out of their mind for speaking another language. But plenty of people, even today, think that glossolalia is something crazed. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/94 "2016-05-26T13:01:51Z")
Never mind. Wrong thread. :o ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/95 "2017-05-25T13:20:46Z")
Bumped. I’ll be speaking Neo-Quenya at our church again for Pentecost on June 4. A shorter passage this year, from Acts 2:7-8, 11b, 12b: “Are not all of these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us, in our own native language?.. in our own languages we hear them speaking about God’s deeds of power… what does this mean?” ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/96 "2017-05-25T13:58:30Z")
Fun. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/97 "2017-05-25T14:45:03Z")
And you _Still_ haven’t done it in the secret language of the dwarves. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/98 "2017-05-25T14:53:40Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > And you _Still_ haven’t done it in the secret language of the dwarves. Yeah, they’re _really_ secretive about it. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/99 "2017-05-25T19:06:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The former. Anyway, if Jesus gave Simon a nickname, it would have been the **Aramaic** work for “rock.” I.e., “[Cephas](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Cephas)”. A name which is used later in the New Testament. (Paul, especially, used “Cephas” in epistles to the Corinthians and the Galatians when speaking of Peter.) ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235/100 "2017-05-25T21:47:37Z")
I have a book called _300 Hundred Ways to Ask the Four Questions_, which is, well, Passover’s Four Questions in three hundred different languages. Towards the back there’s parodies and conlangs, including, yes, Quenya. One year my family passed around the book and we each picked a different language to ask in. Being a general fantasy nerd (although I wasn’t yet specifically in the Tolkien fandom), I said them in Quenya. So I hear ya on this one. (I was going to say that I’d think Elendil’s heir would speak Sindarin, but then I remembered that Middle-earth Elves use Quenya ceremonially, and Elendil’s descendants spent a lot of time around Elves. So yeah, I guess Quenya is appropriate for religious contexts). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-elvish-for-pentecost/622235.md?page=6)