# Speaking of Airplanes and Bad Things - mechanics of destroying a 767 in-flight **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 12, 2010, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815 "2010-04-12T06:58:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/1 "2010-04-12T06:58:14Z")
It’s 9/11 again. This time, you (and maybe one other) are in UNARMED F-16’s dispatched in time to intercept a 767. You have to desroy the 767, but would prefer to survive - unfortunately, you have nothing but maybe a sidearm - no missles, no ammo for your cannon. Can you bring it down without using your nose cone? I’m thinking afterburner to either vertical fin or windsheild - perferable windshield. Would the heat be enough to either cook the pilot or at least breach the pressure vessel without having to park ahead of it for a prolonged time? ---
**Author:** ![yendis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed8c4c/32.png) [@yendis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yendis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/2 "2010-04-12T09:50:34Z")
Using yor afterburners to damage the 767 would be impossible. Remember that an F-16 with lit afterburners is rapidly accelerating and would quickly outpace the 767 so you could not sit steadily in front of the cockpit while hoping something breaks. The best bet would be to try and slice off either a wing or the tail using your own wing or vertical tail in a high speed ramming attack. The chances of you surviving the collision depend entirely on whether or not your plane gets tangled up with the 767 or tumbles away after you hit. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/3 "2010-04-12T10:27:30Z")
They used to knock V1 flying bombs out of the sky in WWII by tipping their wings. I’m wondering if you could do something similar here. A V1 didn’t have a person inside guiding it and it wasn’t too difficult to get its guidance system all discombobulated. A 767 obviously will have a pilot who can try to correct for you doing things like this, but I’m thinking that a 767 is a big plane, and if you give it a good tilt it’s going to be difficult for it to recover. You might not get it on the first attempt, but I’m thinking if you do this a few times the 767 will lose enough altitude that it will eventually run into the ground. The F-16, being a military aircraft, is designed to take a bit of punishment. I’m thinking that you might be able to ram the body of the F-16 into the tail fin of the 767 and snap off the tail without doing too much damage to the F-16. Hollywood answer: Blow the cockpit canopy on the F-16. Jump from the F-16 and land on the 767’s nose. Use your sidearm to shoot the bad guy through the window of the 767. Parachute down and land safely. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/4 "2010-04-12T13:49:22Z")
fly directly in front of one of the 767’s engines; your own exhaust and the turbulent slipstream from your F-16 will disrupt airflow into the engine, hopefully stalling it. They will lose altitude/speed while they attempt to restart the engine. If you can do this often enough - or finally, at low enough altitude - they will crash-land before they can restart the engines. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/5 "2010-04-12T13:51:16Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > They used to knock V1 flying bombs out of the sky in WWII by tipping their wings. Mass is not on your side in this case. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/6 "2010-04-12T14:17:02Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > They used to knock V1 flying bombs out of the sky in WWII by tipping their wings. A 767 is a fly-by-wire craft, and there’s software in the control surface controller to counter sudden perturbances to the aircraft’s attitude. There’s also the small matter of the 767 having roughly 2X the mass of an F-16. > [@](#): > > Hollywood answer: > > Blow the cockpit canopy on the F-16. Jump from the F-16 and land on the 767’s nose. Use your sidearm to shoot the bad guy through the window of the 767. Parachute down and land safely. 😛 Another reality check. Modern fighters don’t blow the canopies, instead they eject right through them. Of course, this won’t get in the way of a true Hollywood solution. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/7 "2010-04-12T14:29:02Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > Another reality check. Modern fighters don’t blow the canopies, instead they eject right through them. Of course, this won’t get in the way of a true Hollywood solution. Although you are correct that virtually all fighter craft designed in the last twenty years us fracture ordnance lines to shatter the upper canopy (the zig-zag lines you see at the top of the canopy,) the F-16 appears to have fully canopy eject. I’d agree with others that the stability and mass of a 767 makes it unlikely that an F-16 could unbalance it either with exhaust or by light wing tip impact. And the 767 can fly and land with one engine out (and those engines can take a surprising amount of damage and debris before failure). It would be suicide to try to bring down a 767 with an unarmed F-16. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![audit1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@audit1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audit1)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/8 "2010-04-12T15:11:30Z")
Okay, I’m in an unarmed F-16. But I still have drop tanks, full of fuel. Since I am a great pilot, Can I fly above the 767 at just the right spot, so when I drop the drop tanks, they do the most damage? Long shot at best, I know. ---
**Author:** ![LIONsob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/76d3ee/32.png) [@LIONsob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LIONsob)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/9 "2010-04-12T15:46:31Z")
Tom Clancy Time. Read a techno-thriller a while back that had a plot line about US Marines in F/A-17s trying to stop a soviet paratroop landing on a freindly airfield without turning the cold war hot. One way they slowed down the transports planes with the paratroopers was to fly about 50 ft in front of the transports cockpit windscreen and punch into full afterburner which caused the plexiglass of the transports windscreen to melt and turn opaque from the heat/shockwave. ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/10 "2010-04-12T15:48:22Z")
Lower the landing gears, then ram the 767’s Ailerons and rudder with them. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/11 "2010-04-12T15:56:15Z")
> [@audit1](#): > > Okay, I’m in an unarmed F-16. But I still have drop tanks, full of fuel. Since I am a great pilot, Can I fly above the 767 at just the right spot, so when I drop the drop tanks, they do the most damage? Long shot at best, I know. Dropping one so it gets sucked into an engine could be fun… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/12 "2010-04-12T15:59:21Z")
You can dump fuel, too. Fly in front of the airliner’s engines and give them each a nice gulp of fuel, and they’ll catch fire nicely. There really aren’t many options that don’t give you a strong chance of having to punch out, though. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/13 "2010-04-12T16:09:55Z")
> [@audit1](#): > > Okay, I’m in an unarmed F-16. But I still have drop tanks, full of fuel. Since I am a great pilot, Can I fly above the 767 at just the right spot, so when I drop the drop tanks, they do the most damage? Long shot at best, I know. What are you going to damage? The rear stabilizer? It’s hard to appreciate, but airframes of large commercial jets are surprisingly strong and can take a substantial amount of damage. You might breech the main cabin and decompress, but that won’t bring the aircraft down. I suppose you could try to hit the wing out away from the wingbox, but remember that air pressure is pushing up on the wing sufficient to hold up the plane. And your JP-8 or Jet A fuel is not going to catch fire or detonate from impact. > [@LIONsob](#): > > Tom Clancy Time. Read a techno-thriller a while back that had a plot line about US Marines in F/A-17s trying to stop a soviet paratroop landing… What the heck is an F/A-17? > [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > Lower the landing gears, then ram the 767’s Ailerons and rudder with them. Uh-huh. Aside from the fact that the differential flows between the top of the wing and the bottom of the F-16 are going to result in turbulence that will cause you to crash into the 767, how do you plan to land once you’ve damaged your gear? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/14 "2010-04-12T16:13:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You can dump fuel, too. Fly in front of the airliner’s engines and give them each a nice gulp of fuel, and they’ll catch fire nicely. ??? The engines are already burning fuel. Dumping more fuel into them will likely just result in choking combustion from a lack of air intake, and flameout. Recovery from flameout is a standard procedure in which commercial jet pilots are well versed. Seriously, the 767 is probably a bigger threat to the unarmed F-16 than vice versa. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![LIONsob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/76d3ee/32.png) [@LIONsob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LIONsob)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/15 "2010-04-12T16:18:48Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > What the heck is an F/A-17? > Stranger Sorry, had a case of fat fingers/cranio-flatulence, lets try F/A-18 Hornet instead. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/16 "2010-04-12T16:32:02Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > ??? The engines are already burning fuel. Dumping more fuel into them will likely just result in choking combustion from a lack of air intake, and flameout. Let’s just say I’ve seen footage. The F/A-18 fuel door is conveniently in front of the starboard intake, and if it doesn’t get closed properly … Remember that air gets hotter as it gets compressed. At some point you’ll get combustion started inside the compressor. The mixture won’t even necessarily be above rich blowout, since a lot of the fuel dumped will get slung to the side by the fan before it enters the core. > [@](#): > > Seriously, the 767 is probably a bigger threat to the unarmed F-16 than vice versa. Depends on if the F-16 pilot is willing to sacrifice his plane and bail out. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/17 "2010-04-12T16:33:02Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > Lower the landing gears, then ram the 767’s Ailerons and rudder with them. I’ve worked around F-16s for umpteen years (software only). Although I rarely get up close to them, I can’t recall any that did _not_ have a tailhook. Stranger’s comment notwithstanding; I suppose you could try to damage or dislodge an aileron by lowering the tailhook and trying to snag it. The trailing edges of control surfaces are fairly fragile. I think trying to fly with gear extended at the 767s cruise speed would, at best, damage the gear doors, and might not even be possible. It’s my understanding that retractable aircraft have a considerable amount of drag with the gear lowered. Not from the gear itself, but from the cavities in which they’re stowed. I suspect that all you’d end up doing is demonstrating the F-16s ejection system to all the passengers on the flight if you did manage to snag something. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/18 "2010-04-12T17:21:55Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Depends on if the F-16 pilot is willing to sacrifice his plane and bail out. Well, if that is the case, just put the plane on a collision trajectory from above and yank the eject handle a second before impact. The 767 will never know what happened as the F-16 airframe tears right into the wingbox or vertical stabilizer. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/19 "2010-04-12T17:49:41Z")
Pass on the right, get in front of the airliners cockpit, then slow down with your turn signal left on. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815/20 "2010-04-12T18:07:54Z")
The OP **did** state that survival was an _option_, not a _requirement_. In that case, ramming seems to be the surest way of bringing the 767 down. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-airplanes-and-bad-things-mechanics-of-destroying-a-767-in-flight/535815.md?page=2)