Speaking of Airplanes and Bad Things - mechanics of destroying a 767 in-flight

Sorry Pullin an F16 is an Air Force plane without a tail hook. That is a Navy requirement :smiley: . I agree though that heading for a mid air collision then bail is this best bet.

You got some ‘splainin’ to do! :smiley:

Photo of a USAF F-16 being brought to a stop by its tailhook

See also:

I have a totally off the wall theory. Suppose I am not in a single seat version of the F-16 but one of the dual seat models. As it happens, there is no one in the back seat. I pull my plane up beneath the 767 and fire the rear ejection seat. What happens?

Doesn’t even have to be that complicated. A 767 is considerably less maneuverable than an F16. I’d suggest simply weaving around in its flight path; if nothing else, the human error of a freaked out pilot trying to compensate and take evasive action would be pretty likely to bring it down. Or at least get you started down that path.

Failing that, I’d suggest doing something with a fuel dump. I’m not sure where you’d dump it, but I’m sure there’s something you can do to at least buy time. If nothing else, try to dump into the engines and hope the hijackers haven’t been trained on recovering from a flameout.

I think the best bet, though, is to ram and jump. Sacrifice your F16 and get out if possible.

Most likely, nothing. You’ll probably miss the aircraft entirely. But it’s not a bad idea if you can get it into an engine.

I don’t know what you’d do with an F-16, but if you happened to be in an Embraer Legacy 600//ERJ-145, just slice off the other plane’s wing with your winglet.

Take the F-16 supersonic - directly ahead of the 767 - can a 767 survive the impact with the resulting boom? The reason transports are NOT supersonic (remember the SST debate/Concorde?) is that the cheap aluminum structures which work well at mach .85 do not do well in the hyper-compressed air of trans-sonic flight.

P.S. - Even if the F-16 would be foolish enough to actually drop gear a 500 mph - Congrats! you’ve just shredded your own plane and given the loon in the 767 one last giggle on his way to paradise.

p.p.s. - who the hell wants 73 virgins !? Grown-ups appreciate someone who knows what the hell they-re doing…:smiley:

This is looking pretty good to me. Ailerons are probably the best point of attack, since it places your F-16 out near the 767’s wingtip, away from the fuselage if something doesn’t go quite right. If you can wreck both ailerons on the big jet to compromise roll control, the big plane will probably roll over and die. Weird things might happen when you get the fighter plane close to the big plane’s wing, but if you could do things at a quick pace - start behind the plane, lower your hook, and accelerate so you pass over the wing in the space of just a few seconds - you can probably manage the risk of the encounter.

I think the only option here is for the F-16 (or whatever) to ram the 767, with the military pilot attempting to eject just before impact.

But I’d go for the tail of the airplane - you can potentially take out TWO control surfaces, the elevator and rudder, which makes the 767 pretty much uncontrollable. A crash would be more or less inevitable IF you hit the right spot.

Should also mention that in general punching out at supersonic speeds is not considered survivable. If you the military pilot want to survive you need to be going a bit slower than Mach 1. Nonetheless, if your aim is good you can probably achieve your goal and might even survive.

It is entirely possible to land a commercial jet without aileron control (as long as the ailerons aren’t jammed in the down position) as long as crosswinds are modest. Taking out the vertical stabilizer and rudder, however, as suggested by Broomstick, will cause any plane to be almost completely uncontrollable.

Stranger

Well - here’s a video of a Hornet taking down a Skyhawk - quite by accident. I’m guessing something similar could be bad news for a 767. In this video, it’s a 250 pound bomb, but the bomb never explodes. It’s simply the impact that takes down the Skyhawk as the bomb shears off a big chunk of the wing. I would imagine that a drop tank filled with fuel could certainly do some significant damage. A quick search seems to show a centerline drop tank holds 300 gallons of fuel - so much more weight than the 250 pound bomb in the video (which didn’t explode).

How about you gently set the F-16 on top of the wing, and reduce power until it’s setting there due to its own weight? You might have to set it pretty far forward so that it is tipped over the front of the airfoil, but I’d think all that drag on the wing would have some effect.

???

Stranger

My assumption is that the damage will probably be asymmetric: after the damage is done there will be a tendency for the aircraft to roll in one direction, and no means by which the pilot can counter that tendency. I guess if the tendency is minor then the pilot might correct with opposite rudder - at which point you simply go back and try to tear up some more of the wing with your tailhook.

The OP stipulated that the fighter pilot wishes to survive the encounter. It’s not explicitly stated, but I think he also want’s the fighter pilot’s plane to survive the encounter; by “survive” here I mean it should remain basically airworthy, if slightly scratched and dented. I can’t envision a good way to damage the big plane’s empennage without thoroughly wrecking the F-16.

I think about ten times would be nearer the mark! A typical F-16 has a max takeoff weight of around 40,000 pounds, whereas a Boeing 767 can weigh as much as 450,000 pounds on takeoff.

An F16s exhaust has gotta be pretty hot.

Fly the F16 just in front of the tail assembly of the 767 just above the fuesalage and I think you would have a chance of heating the structure enough for parts to fail. The upside would also be the 767 pilots probably couldnt even tell you were there doing it.

United Airlines Flight 232 lost all hydraulic systems and almost made a safe landing. A DHL aircraft flying out of Baghdad did make a safe landing with no flight controls.

I think the best bet would be to flameout the 767 engines with the exhaust and wake turbulence.

Imagine trying to do this in a car . You pull in front of a truck and try and get your tail to a point just in front of the truck. Now you are doing this at speed while looking over your shoulder and trying to match the truck’s movements as it goes around corners and changes lanes, speed etc. It’s not going to be easy and you are only worried about moving in 2 dimensions on a level surface. The 767 can also move up and down and the airflow over the fuselage will mean that the F-16 will have a bumpy ride as it tries to maintain position just above a fuselage the pilot cannot actually see clearly. Trying to use your engine like some sort of blowtorch is just not going to work.

Ramming is still the best option, just make sure to say something profound as your last words and hope they don’t become an internet meme, or a lolcat caption.

As was discussed earlier, an engine restart in mid-flight is a standard procedure for which the pilots are trained.

How about we join forces? Let’s tear up the ailerons to eliminate roll control, and THEN stall one of the engines. The plane might lose control before the pilots could accomplish a restart. If the pilots are able to correct the roll tendency with opposite rudder, it’s possibly this adverse yaw angle would disrupt airflow into the stalled engine badly enough to prevent a restart.