# Speaking of idiocy in education... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 2, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736 "2004-12-02T18:50:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/1 "2004-12-02T18:50:33Z")
I have a humble suggestion. [Let’s not use federal money to lie to kids in sex-ed class](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A26623-2004Dec1?language=printer). How about it? (Washington post link, registration required.) Let’s ignore, for the moment, the question about whether abstinence-only sex-ed is actually effective, or whether just it produces teenagers who have unsafe pre-marital sex anyway. How the hell is lying to teenagers at all conscionable? How can anyone justify presenting kids will false statistics (“half the gay male teenagers in the United States have tested positive for the AIDS virus”) and highly questionable statements of “fact” (“HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, can be spread via sweat and tears”)? And why the hell is the federal government spending money on this? Did no one consider _vetting_ these programs before tossing money at them? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/2 "2004-12-02T19:00:22Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > I have a humble suggestion. [Let’s not use federal money to lie to kids in sex-ed class](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A26623-2004Dec1?language=printer). How about it? (Washington post link, registration required.) > > And why the hell is the federal government spending money on this? Did no one consider _vetting_ these programs before tossing money at them? Umm… To be as fair as possible…big fucking deal. They’ve been doing it with the War On Drugs (“Pot will make you kill your family!”), and the War On Terror (“Saddam Hussein bought 19 plane tickets on Sept 10th!”. Are you really surprised that they’d do the same in the War On Sex? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![carimwc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac8455/32.png) [@carimwc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carimwc)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/3 "2004-12-02T19:03:37Z")
My favorite part of the article is the last paragraph. > [@](#): > > "Some course materials cited in Waxman’s report present as scientific fact notions about a man’s need for “admiration” and “sexual fulfillment” compared with a woman’s need for “financial support.” One book in the “Choosing Best” series tells the story of a knight who married a village maiden instead of the princess because the princess offered so many tips on slaying the local dragon. “Moral of the story,” notes the popular text: “Occasional suggestions and assistance may be alright, but too much of it will lessen a man’s confidence or even turn him away from his princess.” Women can never ever show up the man. Scientific fact you know. Gotta admire that man, even if he can’t get the job done and you can do it better. Way to set back women a hundred years. That’s what’s being taught in some of the schools. Didn’t you know that mentioning the word “SEX” to kids just makes them want to have sex? Worked for me. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/4 "2004-12-02T19:07:27Z")
Abstinence-only programs are anti-sex propaganda designed by and for fundies. They have no scruples with using lies and deception to scare the pants off students if they’re doing it for Jesus. Joe S. McIlhaney, the head of the organization that produces much of the abstinence-only curricular materials that were surveyed by Waxman’s team, is a Texas fundie nutcase. FRom [alternet.org](http://alternet.org): > [@](#): > > Dr. Joseph McIlhaney, Jr.: Appointed to Coburn on the HIV and AIDS advisory council. McIlhaney has a long and well-documented history of disseminating misleading data on condom failure rates. He was appointed in spite of the fact that in 1995 Governor George W. Bush’s own Texas Commissioner of Health openly denounced McIhaney’s anti-condom propaganda and his professional credibility. And yet some folks wonder why skeptics question fundies’ commitment to truth and fair dealing. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/5 "2004-12-02T19:17:02Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > And yet some folks wonder why skeptics question fundies’ commitment to truth and fair dealing. Who’s still questioning them? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/6 "2004-12-02T19:21:56Z")
Oh for the love of _Og,_ are they done _yet_? Sending the USA back to the 1950s sexually wasn’t enough; they’re not going to rest until it’s back to the 1800s. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/7 "2004-12-02T19:23:42Z")
Or how about > [@](#): > > Joe. S. McIlhaney Jr., who runs the Medical Institute for Sexual Health, which developed much of the material that was surveyed, said he is “saddened” that Waxman chose to “blast” well-intentioned abstinence educators when there is much the two sides could agree on. Good intentions are no excuse for incompetence, distortion, and lies. So Mr. McIlhaney is “saddened” that Waxman called bullshit on dishonest programs soaking up our tax dollars? Well cry me a fucking river, asshole. I’m “saddened” that groups like yours have wasted hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars on this garbage over the last five years. As far as I’m concerned, the federal government would be better off spending $0 on sex education programs. And even if they’re going to fund abstinence only programs, how about only funding the ones that don’t lie? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/8 "2004-12-02T19:25:43Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Who’s still questioning them? OK, flat-out denying, then. And in re-reading my original post, I ought to have written, “They have no scruples with using lies and deception to scare the pants **on** students if they’re doing it for Jesus.” If I may borrow from Orwell, > [@](#): > > Unlike Winston, she had grasped the inner meaning of the Party’s sexual puritanism. It was not merely that the sex instinct created a world of its own which was outside the Party’s control and which therefore had to be destroyed if possible. What was more important was that sexual privation induced hysteria, which was desirable because it could be transformed into war-fever and leader-worship. The way she put it was: > > 'When you make love you’re using up energy; and afterwards you feel happy and don’t give a damn for anything. They can’t bear you to feel like that. They want you to be bursting with energy all the time. All this marching up and down and cheering and waving flags is simpIy sex gone sour. If you’re happy inside yourself, why should you get excited about Big Brother and the Three-Year Plans and the Two Minutes Hate and all the rest of their bloody rot? ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/9 "2004-12-02T19:53:08Z")
This just serves as more proof that the government shouldn’t be in the education business. We’ve got kids graduating from high school who can’t point out Washington DC on a map. Is it any surprise that public schools can’t get sex right either? ---
**Author:** ![hildea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ebca7d/32.png) [@hildea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hildea)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/10 "2004-12-02T20:09:44Z")
Is there any evidence that private schools do better? ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/11 "2004-12-02T20:21:20Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > This just serves as more proof that the government shouldn’t be in the education business. We’ve got kids graduating from high school who can’t point out Washington DC on a map. Is it any surprise that public schools can’t get sex right either? What **hildea** said. The information is these programs isn’t produced by public schools (which in the United States answer to state governments), it’s produced by third-party organizations like the Medical Institute for Sexual Health (now receiving tax dollars from the federal government), who are probably just as capable of peddling their wares to private schools. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/12 "2004-12-02T21:21:49Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > They have no scruples with using lies and deception to scare the pants off students if they’re doing it for Jesus. Technically, I think they’re trying to scare the pants _on to_ students. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/13 "2004-12-02T21:24:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Technically, I think they’re trying to scare the pants _on to_ students. I beat you to it with my revision in Post #8. ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/14 "2004-12-02T21:42:54Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > This just serves as more proof that the government shouldn’t be in the education business. We’ve got kids graduating from high school who can’t point out Washington DC on a map. Is it any surprise that public schools can’t get sex right either? Interestingly today I read in the economist that the federal government provides only 8% of the budget of public schools. If I am not mistaken most of the curricular and budget decisions are made by local school boards. They certainly were the ones who decided to discredit evolution here in GA. Perhaps you should be pointing fingers at the folks on school boards who decide these things and not “the government.” ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/15 "2004-12-02T21:48:19Z")
**bangs head against wall over and over** Sigh. Is it hopeless? Are we really going down this path? At this rate there is no way I’d let my child be educated in this country. This is so damn depressing! I’m gonna go watch Oprah and eat ice cream now…I gotta get some prozac or zoloft or valium or something… **wanders off in a daze** ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/16 "2004-12-02T22:04:51Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > I beat you to it with my revision in Post #8. Crap. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/17 "2004-12-02T22:22:50Z")
> [@](#): > > One book in the “Choosing Best” series tells the story of a knight who married a village maiden instead of the princess because the princess offered so many tips on slaying the local dragon. “Moral of the story,” notes the popular text: “Occasional suggestions and assistance may be alright, but too much of it will lessen a man’s confidence or even turn him away from his princess.” This is just _wrong_! While it’s probably OK for a regular guy to marry the nice girl, the character in the story is a **Prince** , and by taking the easier path, he’s left a conniving princess free to corrupt the nation! Had the prince been man enough to do his duty to the kingdom, he would have married the bitchly princess, and _corrected_ her with a **firm hand**. What sort of message are we sending our kids when we present them with role models who ditch their duty to God and country merely for the sake of a pleasant home-life? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/18 "2004-12-02T23:40:22Z")
Welcome to the Bush theocracy…where “reality” can be altered by fiat. It’s going to get worse, folks. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/19 "2004-12-02T23:56:40Z")
The AIDS epidemic is aiding the abstinence movement, especially when 47 percent of new infections are happening to women. I wouldn’t be surprised if women on both sides of the feminist aisle are fueling the movement, behind the scenes. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736/20 "2004-12-03T00:09:20Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Oh for the love of _Og,_ are they done _yet_? Sending the USA back to the 1950s sexually wasn’t enough; they’re not going to rest until it’s back to the 1800s. So long as they implement a plan to roll back the price of whores, who cares? 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-of-idiocy-in-education/277736.md?page=2)