# Speaking to an employee about her clothing--kind'a quick would be good **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 25, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488 "2015-09-25T15:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/21 "2015-09-25T19:17:20Z")
> [@delphica](#): > > It’s really important that you say NOTHING about the motivations for her choices, whether you think they are related to budget, body shape, instructions from aliens, anything. That is when you get into very risky territory. I agree. Explain what the policy is. But don’t initiate any discussion about why she isn’t complying with it. If she wants to discuss why she hasn’t been complying, let her raise the issue. And then only address the issues she raises; don’t speculate on any other possible issues. ---
**Author:** ![DummyGladHands](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DummyGladHands](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DummyGladHands)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/22 "2015-09-25T19:44:15Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Why stress yourself? Just tell her that there are company policies about appropriate dress, which were less important in her previous position, but are now compulsory for her new position. > > Tell her that a skirt, blouse with a collar ,and nice shoes are appropriate; jeans are not. > > And maybe tell a white lie: that a client who met with her was upset by her appearance. On his way out of the building the client called his boss on his cell phone and you overheard him saying that the meeting went okay, but it was a bit difficult for him at first because he had to overcome the unprofessional appearance of the employee he met with. > And for og’s sake, why did you tell us about her big boobs in 6th grade? If you are male, you could be in big trouble for even thinking such thoughts (and the thought police are everywhere these days.)If you are female, and she of her own volition mentioned her "early development " to you in a private conversation, it is still no concern of yours in the workplace. Chill, I am female, and I have never discussed or commented on that since she told me about it. Nor would I bring it into the discussion of her work attire. Simply backgrounding. As I said, I’ve brought it up to her before, gently, and she said at one point that she knows there’s a issue, recounted her jr. high story and said that if she starts “dressing up” now people here will tease her, and she’s never gotten over jr. high in that respect. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/23 "2015-09-25T20:44:38Z")
“This is the dress code for the job. I expect you to follow it. I also expect that I won’t have to discuss this with you any further. Are we clear?” ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/24 "2015-09-25T21:20:20Z")
Back in the day, I created a dress code presentation that involved “yes” and “no” photos so employees could see what we considered “business casual” and appropriate for client meetings. I agree that you should tell your employee that she needs to be properly dressed to meet with a client any time that she’s at work. > [@delphica](#): > > I would personally let her have tunics, which, conversationally between us, might be a good wardrobe choice for someone who wants a lot of coverage in the areas you described, but in terms of a conversation with an employee, you may list tunics but DO NOT say anything else about them. Tunics can be a fabulous choice, especially if she’s a little taller than average. A dressy tunic, slim-fit trousers, and a pair of low-heeled shoes would be as comfortable as jeans and a t-shirt, but way more professional-looking. A [long, “flyaway” cardigan](https://www.google.com/search?q=flyaway+cardigan&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CEcQsARqFQoTCNaovumNk8gCFQJWHgodMUkEBQ&biw=1252&bih=602#tbm=isch&q=open+front+cardigan) can also look great on someone with a little midsection issue to camouflage. They come in various material weights, so can be layered up or down. Since it’s autumn and going into winter, she could get a lot of mileage out of a “uniform” of a black or brown skirt (or trousers) and a pullover sweater of good quality. Add plain earrings and a necklace or scarf, and you’re dressed very nicely for the office. Add tights and boots when it’s cold; heels when it’s not. She can mix tops and bottoms, and get away with just a few pairs of trousers and a few skirts. Edit: source: my own midsection, which has never been wasp-like. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Marion\_Wormer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@Marion\_Wormer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marion_Wormer)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/25 "2015-09-25T21:28:24Z")
This is the job of HR or your personnel group. If you don’t have one talk to your boss before you have the ‘talk’. You need guidance on what is acceptable in writing. If you don’t have that, then wait until you do. I think the suggestion for a small cash advance is good. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/26 "2015-09-25T21:40:51Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > And maybe tell a white lie: that a client who met with her was upset by her appearance. On his way out of the building the client called his boss on his cell phone and you overheard him saying that the meeting went okay, but it was a bit difficult for him at first because he had to overcome the unprofessional appearance of the employee he met with. I wouldn’t lie to her. It’s unnecessary; plenty of places have “business casual” dress codes even if nobody ever sees a client, and the backlash if she finds out it’s a lie will create distrust. Just tell her what everyone else said. This isn’t a big deal, and given the potential issues one can have with employees, it should be relatively easy to fix. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/27 "2015-09-25T21:44:25Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > “This is the dress code for the job. I expect you to follow it. I also expect that I won’t have to discuss this with you any further. Are we clear?” It’s not the Army, ffs 😃 OP: Just phrase it along the lines of “In your new role, we have to be a lot stricter about complying with our dress code”. Be nice about it, clothing is quite a personal thing, and being too confrontational might have unexpected consequences. Also, just be thankful you are not having the “It might be better if you washed/washed your clothes a bit more regularly” conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/28 "2015-09-25T21:46:03Z")
> [@Marion\_Wormer](#): > > This is the job of HR or your personnel group. No it’s not, this is basic line-manager stuff. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/29 "2015-09-25T22:04:05Z")
> [@DummyGladHands](#): > > As I said, I’ve brought it up to her before, gently, and she said at one point that she knows there’s a issue, recounted her jr. high story and said that if she starts “dressing up” now people here will tease her, and she’s never gotten over jr. high in that respect. I think we were all harassed one way or another in junior high. It’s the nature of the pre-teen beast. She needs to find clothes flattering to her figure and appropriate to the work place. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/30 "2015-09-25T22:10:42Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > . . . She needs to find clothes flattering to her figure . . . No, she doesn’t. > [@ivylass](#): > > . . . She needs to find clothes . . . appropriate to the work place. Yes, she does. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/31 "2015-09-25T22:45:48Z")
The comments about how much/little she is being paid are irrelevant. Khakis/Chinos cost the same or less than jeans. There is also no excuse to show up to work in frayed/torn/ripped clothing. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/32 "2015-09-25T23:14:13Z")
How about you ditch the dress code? Is that really going to destroy your business? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/33 "2015-09-25T23:26:03Z")
> [@DummyGladHands](#): > > Chill, I am female, and I have never discussed or commented on that since she told me about it. Nor would I bring it into the discussion of her work attire. Simply backgrounding. > > As I said, I’ve brought it up to her before, gently, and she said at one point that she knows there’s a issue, recounted her jr. high story and said that if she starts “dressing up” now people here will tease her, and she’s never gotten over jr. high in that respect. Any staff who tease her about her professional dress should be brought in line. She might be especially touchy about the subject, and prone to take offense easily, but no one should have to put up with teasing at work. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/34 "2015-09-25T23:43:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > How about you ditch the dress code? Is that really going to destroy your business? C’mon man, I dislike dress codes myself and have the luxury at my particular isolated position of wearing just about anything I please ( though I once knew one dingbat who got scolded for wearing just a lab coat over his tighty-whities ). But millions of people work in situations where a particular look is required by clients expecting “professionalism.” However silly that may seem to some from a purely philosophical POV, it still can impact your bottom line if you decide to be a rebel. I personally am mildly pleased with the continuing gradual casualization of American society ;). But that doesn’t mean you’re usually going to get away with wearing torn jeans and a Motley Crue t-shirt at your job as a corporate lawyer ( or as the lawyer’s secretary ). ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/35 "2015-09-26T01:28:02Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > . . . There is also no excuse to show up to work in frayed/torn/ripped clothing. [Raw edged jeans](http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/raw-hem-flare/4101982?origin=category-personalizedsort&contextualcategoryid=0&fashionColor=&resultback=1534) are all the rage these days. I’m not saying it’s a good look for work, just that they are not considered “raggedy” anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/36 "2015-09-26T01:41:27Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > But that doesn’t mean you’re usually going to get away with wearing … That depends on whether you work for someone who is going to let you “get away” with it. I’m encouraging the OP to be that boss and move the goal posts one step farther away from sartorial formality and uniformity and standards and towards casual and personal preferences. The more clients see it, the more they will get used to it. It takes multiple small steps to add up to big leaps, but it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/37 "2015-09-26T02:09:30Z")
Macy’s and other similar stores have [free personal shopper services](http://www.macys.com/campaign/social?campaign_id=180&channel_id=1). A lot of people think that you have to be a rich socialite shopping for couture in order to use them. But you can just be a regular person (male or female) and tell your personal shopper “my workplace is business casual and I need something to fit in.” There’s no obligation to buy or to ever come back. A lot of people just don’t know what to wear. They can look at the other people around them and not understand how they put together that outfit or what that thing they are wearing is called. Talking to a professional who has done this a thousand times before is a lot less embarrassing than sending someone from work to shop with her and a lot less intimidating than walking into a big store and not even knowing what you are looking for. (Walking into a store can be overwhelming.) Did I mention it is free? Maybe steer her in that direction? ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/38 "2015-09-26T02:18:29Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Do you pay her enough to make a new wardrobe feasible? Someone working at a starter clerical position probably isn’t bringing in the big bucks. I was thinking this too, buying a new wardrobe can be expensive and she might just not know how to shop or the right clothes for work. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/39 "2015-09-26T02:24:45Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > Just tell her. Have a proper definition of business casual at hand (Google it or write it up yourself if you want to be really specific). Say, “Jane, congratulations on your promotion! One of the changes I’ll need to see is you sticking to the dress code every day. That includes not wearing jeans, making sure your clothes are clean and undamaged, your hair is neat and tidy, _fill in other points here._ Can you commit to that?” > > (You should also have a better objection than “just, I dunno, big baggy shirts” to comment on her current choices.) > > Then, every day following your conversation, if she is NOT dressed appropriately, TELL HER. Be specific - "Jane, we spoke about professional dress on Sept 25, and this outfit is not appropriate because of X reason. (If you want to be nice: “I’ll let it slide for today, but if this happens again, you will have to go home and change.”… This x10. One of the most aggravating behaviors that I have seen from managers is vagueness on expectations. If all you are telling me to do is “improve your performance”, then there’s not much I can do with that. Do you mean come in earlier? Stay later? Choose whether or not to come in earlier or stay later, just as long as I work longer hours? Do you primarily want me to get more items done each day, or is there a concern with my work _quality_ and I should concentrate on doing just a few things really really well and leave the rest for later/others? Tell me “robert\_columbia, you made four grammatical errors in your writing today. You need to make no more than two per day”, not “robert\_columbia, you need to improve your performance”. Arrgh. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/40 "2015-09-26T02:40:46Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Also, just be thankful you are not having the “It might be better if you washed/washed your clothes a bit more regularly” conversation. I once had an employee who had been caught masturbating on the job. And people were making jokes about him. So I had to set up a meeting with him to review our sexual harassment policies and ask him if he felt he was working in a hostile environment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488.md?page=3)