# Speaking to an employee about her clothing--kind'a quick would be good **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 25, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488 "2015-09-25T15:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/41 "2015-09-26T02:57:58Z")
> [@DummyGladHands](#): > > As I said, I’ve brought it up to her before, gently, and she said at one point that she knows there’s a issue, recounted her jr. high story and said that if she starts “dressing up” now people here will tease her, and she’s never gotten over jr. high in that respect. This seems like an odd reason to me. A woman self-conscious about her bosom wears a minimizer, done. At any rate, your current comeback is that she’s stepped up her role by getting promoted, she needs to dress like she’s been promoted. There are a lot of places where just the promotion will result in ribbing, that didn’t stop her from taking the job, and if no ribbing for that happened, dressing the part won’t, either. She needs to grow up, being an awkward kid was a long time ago. Me, I wear push-ups on my D’s, and tunic tops. That way, tops drape nicely and people notice the girls before belly. That’s how I prefer to think of it, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/42 "2015-09-26T03:32:40Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > This seems like an odd reason to me. A woman self-conscious about her bosom wears a minimizer, done. At any rate, your current comeback is that she’s stepped up her role by getting promoted, she needs to dress like she’s been promoted. There are a lot of places where just the promotion will result in ribbing, that didn’t stop her from taking the job, and if no ribbing for that happened, dressing the part won’t, either. She needs to grow up, being an awkward kid was a long time ago. > > Me, I wear push-ups on my D’s, and tunic tops. That way, tops drape nicely and people notice the girls before belly. That’s how I prefer to think of it, anyway. It’s not unusual for (especially male) managers to think of “tucked in shirt” as business appropriate and “not tucked in” to be too casual. I once heard a manager arguing with an employee about whether he needed to tuck in a Hawaiian shirt on Casual Friday. For women with a large bust, tucking in shirts just doesn’t work. At least, not unless you’ve had them tailor made. And if she’s got a belly she wants to hide, it’s right out in any case. So that’s why I asked you - what is your definition? It is such an incredibly broad category. Many offices do allow dark colored jeans with loafers (but not with sneakers.) You need a hard definition and both of you need to follow it strictly. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/43 "2015-09-26T03:52:56Z")
> [@DummyGladHands](#): > > I know for a fact it’s not financial. She makes a healthy wage due to longevity, purchased a home 2 years ago (single woman) and has a nice 401 for a 30 yr. old. You can deny it all you want, but it probably is at partly financial. I got a similar promotion a while back from a job with a very loose dress code to one with a much more strict dress code. I was even told, “We pay you more now, so you can afford nicer clothes.” I’m sure it was said with the best of intentions and no insult was intended, but… 1. I was told this when I was still in my old position. I hadn’t received a single paycheck at my increased salary yet. **SO I DIDN’T HAVE ANY EXTRA MONEY.** 2. And I was in the process of purchasing a house, so while I knew how to handle money, most of it was currently tied up in the down payment and the rest was earmarked for other bills. **SO I DIDN’T HAVE ANY EXTRA MONEY.** ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/44 "2015-09-26T04:29:05Z")
> [@DummyGladHands](#): > > We have a dress code that requires uniform for specific people. The office personnel, of which she is one, are requested to wear business casual. “Requested” or “required”? What is in writing in a policy manual? ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/45 "2015-09-26T12:07:37Z")
> [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > Just checked my handy-dandy “How to be a Manager” textbook from one of my classes, and here’s the book version: > > “Redirective” Feedback (feedback designed to change, as opposed to “Reinforcing” feedback, which is feedback designed to encourage a past behaviour) > > -Focus on the facts > -Communicate the impact of their behaviour > -Be clear about the changes we need to see, and when > -Probe them for a plan to improve > -Encourage their efforts > -Reinforce their value to the team/organization. We’ve all said way too little about what her goals are. I see one mention, and no other discussion. Whiskey Dickens, your quote here is a great example of this – what is wrong with the business world, that in all the coaching about how to give feedback, we just about never consider the idea of helping an employee get to where they want to get??? I think the feedback should be totally honest, no white lies. But honest doesn’t equate to open, and the question of how much to include should depend entirely on professional respect and how best to help another person become more successful. Those of us whom clothing designers didn’t have in mind all know how difficult it can be to get it right, especially after a lifetime of negative experiences and even humiliation in the hateful environment of clothes shopping. Anything we can do to make a workplace more suited to professional thriving without regard to bodily contours, and especially sex characteristics, is a good deed. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/46 "2015-09-26T12:49:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I once had an employee who had been caught masturbating on the job. And people were making jokes about him. > > So I had to set up a meeting with him to review our sexual harassment policies and ask him if he felt he was working in a hostile environment. How does one get caught masturbating at their job ans still have a job? I’m just wondering how that conversation went down: George Costanza Was that wrong? Should I not have done that? I tell you, I gotta plead ignorance on this thing, because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing is frowned upon… you know, cause I’ve worked in a lot of offices, and I tell you, people do that all the time. Mr. Lippman: You’re fired! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/47 "2015-09-26T13:49:55Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > How does one get caught masturbating at their job ans still have a job? When your car gets a flat tire, do you buy a new car? Most of the time you’re better off trying to fix the problems with the employee you’ve got then you are starting over with a new employee. Because that new employee is probably going to have problems that will need to be fixed as well. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/48 "2015-09-26T14:40:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > When your car gets a flat tire, do you buy a new car? > > Most of the time you’re better off trying to fix the problems with the employee you’ve got then you are starting over with a new employee. Because that new employee is probably going to have problems that will need to be fixed as well. Sound reasoning. It just surprises me that in today’s corporate world, NOT firing them would even be an option. I know with out a doubt my job would fire me for such a thing. And I’ve been employed there for nearly 25 years. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/49 "2015-09-26T16:34:17Z")
It’s a pipe dream that anyone could throw the employee a “new wardrobe party” followed by an “old wardrobe bonfire”, but its fun to think about in a ‘bad movie script’ kind of way. _ **These are all BAD IDEAS; Don’t Do Any Of Them** _ Its not like you could a run a “Clothing Drive for Managers” month, where for every piece of tattered / offensive / horrendous piece of clothing that she donates gets her $10 on an AMEX gift card at the end of the month, right? And even if you did, its not like you could get her to dump the worst offenders in the [del]burn-box[/del] donation-box. Sentences Not To Say: “Maybe that bright pink rhinestone bedazzled tube-top with “Three Drink Minimum” written across the chest will get donated…” Ditto with the “special off-site meeting” where you take her to a good women’s clothing store and dress her up like Prosecutor Barbie with “Pretty Woman” playing on the muzak. Q: If she gets in writing that her new position requires a specific wardrobe, one that she does not have, could she expense the new wardrobe on her taxes? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/50 "2015-09-26T21:23:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > When your car gets a flat tire, do you buy a new car? > > Most of the time you’re better off trying to fix the problems with the employee you’ve got then you are starting over with a new employee. Because that new employee is probably going to have problems that will need to be fixed as well. Was he masturbating in the bathroom or at his desk? Because that’s sort of the difference between a car with a “flat tire” and a blow-out on the highway at 80 mph. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/51 "2015-09-26T21:31:57Z")
“You look like shit. Now go home and change into something that doesn’t look like you stole it from a junkie.” ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/52 "2015-09-26T22:00:16Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Was he masturbating in the bathroom or at his desk? Because that’s sort of the difference between a car with a “flat tire” and a blow-out on the highway at 80 mph. No idea about Nemo’s situation, but I used to work as lead on very large projects for a big financial institution. I always liked to be onsite for big overnight implementations, knew what was going on, knew who to call, basically liked working at night etc Anyway, when you are hanging around outside the office, which usually holds about 3000 staff, at 4am, having a smoke with the overnight cleaning crew on their break, you find out all sorts of unsavoury things: “First floor central 2 gents, there’s always spunk on the walls” “A certain executive picks his nose and wipes it under his desk” “There’s sometimes messages written in blood on the mirrors in one of the ladies toilets” People are weird. Thing is, the first two are really common. The third less so, as far as I ever found out. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/53 "2015-09-26T23:15:32Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > “There’s sometimes messages written in blood on the mirrors in one of the ladies toilets” > > People are weird. Thing is, the first two are really common. The third less so, as far as I ever found out. Years ago I worked at a place with one unisex bathroom. One day I used it and saw blood smeared on the mirror. It was the same day the scabby-acne-ridden spiteful teenager son of a co-worker was spending the day at work with her. I was actually surprised how easily I was able to tell her to go check the mirror, and she took it from there. I believe he’s worked it out and is now supporting himself as a grownup. That could have gone a different way. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/54 "2015-09-27T03:48:18Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Was he masturbating in the bathroom or at his desk? Because that’s sort of the difference between a car with a “flat tire” and a blow-out on the highway at 80 mph. He was in the bathroom. We probably would have fired him if he had been masturbating out in the open. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/55 "2015-09-27T03:52:41Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Consider asking the bosses to give her a bonus expressly for this purpose. Even $300 could make a big difference. Then give her very strict guidelines on how it is to be used. Better yet, promote her, and she can make her own dress code and nobody will be upset either way. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/56 "2015-09-27T03:53:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We probably would have fired him if he had been masturbating out in the open. “Sure, after 9/11 and everybody got so paranoid; thanks a lot, Bin Laden.” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/57 "2015-09-27T05:18:08Z")
Does she even know that her dress isn’t appropriate? And if she just got promoted, I assume her work is basically good, and you want to keep her. Sheesh. Tell her. Tell her as explicitly as possible what the expectations of the new job are. Show her pictures if you can. Don’t say “your clothes look bad”, say, "in your new role, we expect you to follow our profesisonal dress code. That means that you should wear tailored slacks rather than jeans (or whatever the expectations are.) Don’t beat around the bush. She probably LIKES the clothes she wears now. And if the company doesn’t have a dress code, well, either it should put one together, or you shouldn’t nag her about her clothing. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/58 "2015-09-27T12:42:51Z")
My boss once brought in a consultant to show us all how to dress. All us ladies got make overs and we were given packets that included pictures of acceptable clothing. I think he might have even given us a small amount of money to use to spiff up, but this was because it was a new policy. Maybe pictures of appropriate type clothing would help her. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/59 "2015-09-27T18:11:21Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Sheesh. Tell her. Tell her as explicitly as possible what the expectations of the new job are. Show her pictures if you can. Don’t say “your clothes look bad”, say, "in your new role, we expect you to follow our profesisonal dress code. That means that you should wear tailored slacks rather than jeans (or whatever the expectations are.) But that’s what I mean – is there something official in writing for the OP to refer to? Otherwise it becomes somewhat arbitrary. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488/60 "2015-10-22T17:36:19Z")
So, DGH, any update? How did you approach it? And how did that work for you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speaking-to-an-employee-about-her-clothing-kinda-quick-would-be-good/732488.md?page=4)