# Special Counsel appointed in Russia probe. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 17, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876 "2017-05-17T22:24:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/21 "2017-05-18T04:11:31Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I would have thought that Ken Starr would have made Democrats swear off special prosecutors forever. He essentially did. Due to the fallout from the impeachment, Congress let the independent counsel statute expire. The Office of the Independent Counsel was a standing office created via statute in the late '70s by Congress that virtually had a budget completely set by whoever the independent counsel was, the independent counsel could investigate allegations of any misconduct against virtually anyone within the federal government, though the IC reported to Congress. The IC could only be dismissed either for “good cause” by the Attorney General or by a special panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. Special counsels do not have an unlimited budget, are not standing positions that go on after a particular investigation is finished, are still within the DOJ framework though in this case would have a large amount of independence, and have a much narrower scope (as opposed to virtually unlimited scope) that sets some parameters about what they are to investigate. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/22 "2017-05-18T04:23:23Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > People like you are incapable of understanding that this is not a partisan issue. Because they, like many Republicans, _say_ the exact same thing: “What the Democrats need to understand is this is not a partisan issue”. 'Cept the Pubs are cynical, dishonest charlatans, so when they hear Democrats say it, they hear their own disingenuity and assume everybody lies like they do. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/23 "2017-05-18T04:35:27Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I would have thought that Ken Starr would have made Democrats swear off special prosecutors forever. I guess that the opportunity to make a few cheap shots causes memories to become conveniently short. > [@ganthet](#): > > He essentially did. Due to the fallout from the impeachment, Congress let the independent counsel statute expire. Well he may have made Congress swear them off, but it wasn’t necessarily the Democrats who swore them off. When the statute expired in 1999. Republicans held the House 227-206 and the Senate 55-45. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/24 "2017-05-18T04:40:27Z")
[Here’s](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-mueller-idUSKCN18E084?il=0) something interesting, though. > [@](#): > > Most recently, Mueller had worked at a major Washington law firm, Wilmer Hale, which presents a possible wrinkle for his new assignment. > > The firm represents Trump’s daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner, who have taken on White House jobs. It also represents Paul Manafort, a former campaign chairman who had ties to Russia. > > Mueller left Wilmer Hale this week but faces a Justice Department ethics requirement that could bar him for a year from investigating anyone represented by his former firm. > > Mueller may be able to obtain a waiver from the Justice Department’s ethics officers or recuse himself from investigating certain individuals, leaving those inquiries to a deputy. > > Richard Painter, an ethics lawyer in the George W. Bush administration who has been a vocal critic of Trump, said Mueller has good grounds to receive such a waiver. Doesn’t change my opinion that Mueller is a good choice, but I imagine Trump will do his best to make a thing out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/25 "2017-05-18T05:44:36Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Anyone want to bet that Trump actually knows very little about Watergate and probably thinks “Saturday night massacre” is a gang killing? His advisors tried to educate him about Watergate but he stopped reading because it didn’t have his name in it 😃 “Saturday Night Massacre. Terrible show, failing, hasn’t been funny in years. They got much better ratings when I was hosting.” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/26 "2017-05-18T06:19:50Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Doesn’t change my opinion that Mueller is a good choice, but I imagine Trump will do his best to make a thing out of it. I think you’re thinking too highly of him. Should he take note of that factoid at all, it will be to see if he can pay the firm to lobby Mueller on his behalf. I don’t quite think that he’s that much of a dumbass, but I guess we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/27 "2017-05-18T06:44:45Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Well he may have made Congress swear them off, but it wasn’t necessarily the Democrats who swore them off. When the statute expired in 1999. Republicans held the House 227-206 and the Senate 55-45. There have been plenty of chances in the interim for Democrats to re-enact the independent counsel statute, and they had no interest in doing so. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/28 "2017-05-18T10:39:23Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > My good friend [Ambassador Kosh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1GF4Gnb-D0) sums up the situation nicely. (Youtube video link) Right philosopher, wrong [philosophy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_jNklBqVCA). ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/29 "2017-05-18T11:29:10Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I wonder what Jeff Sessions thinks of all this. You mean [Granny?](https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/photos/a.347907068635687.81180.346937065399354/1482790915147291/?type=3&theater) I have to give Rosenstein some credit for doing the right thing. Of course, it may cost him his job but for the first and probably only time ever, someone in this administration did something right. I don’t know if there’s a better choice out there. I’ve got confidence now that the investigation will be fair and thorough, which is something I might never have with the congressional inquiries. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/30 "2017-05-18T14:00:37Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I have to give Rosenstein some credit for doing the right thing. Of course, it may cost him his job but for the first and probably only time ever, someone in this administration did something right. Someone would throw themselves in front of Trump’s locomotive before that happened, since firing Rosenstein would pretty much seal the deal on any Saturday Night Massacre/obstruction of justice comparisons. And since the Deputy AG has to be confirmed by the Senate, it would ensure that only an even more independent career prosecutor would replace Rosenstein since some of the Senate Republicans seem to still have some integrity and patriotism left. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/31 "2017-05-18T23:33:36Z")
After reading this (long) [piece](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/18/james-comey-trump-special-prosecutor-robert-mueller-fbi-215154) in Politico, I have had some hope restored for the rule of law. Mueller is damned impressive. I only knew a bit about the STELLAR WIND showdown in Ashcroft’s hospital room. > [@](#): > > The story of that March 11, 2004, showdown—how it came to light and what it says about the motivations and the moral compass of the two men now at the heart of a new Washington showdown—should deeply worry the Trump White House. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/32 "2017-05-18T23:58:00Z")
Trouble with Mueller might well be that he is\* too \*good a choice. From what I can glean from reports, he is most likely to take a steady, concentrated and precise investigation. Which, by all reports, will not be quickly resolved. As in months. Perhaps a year, maybe more? Jesus fuck a shit soufflé! So, what happens in the meantime? How much will Congressional investigations be hampered if not halted? Would it not serve the self-interest of those Republican Congressgits who are closely allied with Trump to slow roll all of this in the scant hope that catastrophe can be reversed? “No, no, we can’t ask those questions, that’s for Mueller to do! Guess we’ll just have to sit on our hands and wait. Darn!” Meanwhile, the man who makes President Camacho look like Lincoln is the most powerful single individual in the world! And its our fault! Have our esteemed Constitutional scholars a solution? Are we doomed to watch another two year long spectacle like Watergate while Mueller does a proper and methodical investigation? Mueller? Mueller? Mueller? ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/33 "2017-05-19T00:10:02Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > After reading this (long) [piece](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/18/james-comey-trump-special-prosecutor-robert-mueller-fbi-215154) in Politico, I have had some hope restored for the rule of law I think that is the thing that makes me hapiest.Trump has spent his life cheating at yatzee, walked into a room with chess grandmasters, and thinks he has the advantage. ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/34 "2017-05-19T04:06:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Trouble with Mueller might well be that he is\* too \*good a choice. From what I can glean from reports, he is most likely to take a steady, concentrated and precise investigation. Which, by all reports, will not be quickly resolved. As in months. Perhaps a year, maybe more? Jesus fuck a shit soufflé! > > So, what happens in the meantime? How much will Congressional investigations be hampered if not halted? Would it not serve the self-interest of those Republican Congressgits who are closely allied with Trump to slow roll all of this in the scant hope that catastrophe can be reversed? > > “No, no, we can’t ask those questions, that’s for Mueller to do! Guess we’ll just have to sit on our hands and wait. Darn!” > > Meanwhile, the man who makes President Camacho look like Lincoln is the most powerful single individual in the world! And its our fault! > > Have our esteemed Constitutional scholars a solution? Are we doomed to watch another two year long spectacle like Watergate while Mueller does a proper and methodical investigation? > > Mueller? Mueller? Mueller? I get the concern, but keep in mind - Trump is extremely incompetent, and Comey is prepared and knows what he is doing. We only have two episodes to compare this to, and yes - it would take a long time if they were going to be fully investigated (which they should be), but Im not sure it has to be that way for its intended results. Trump doesn’t have the loyalty that Nixon and Clinton had PLUS Trump has already pretty much violated the law in and of itself with his aggressive tweets and attempts to intimidate Comey. Trump has a long history of cons - and the thing is, even though they are sometimes complicated, they are pretty obvious if you look even a little deep. He thinks he is smarter than everyone else - and he apparently doesn’t listen. Comey is extremely well prepared and almost certainly has the goods on Trump. IMHO, The timing of the special counsel is no accident. The New York Times articles aren’t leaks. POTUS is unstable and in the process of trying to terrorize everyone to bend to his will. He thinks the FBI is his personal police force. Trump wants to use the FBI to go after leaks. That is all he cares about. He will pressure whoever to do this - and while investigating disclosure of classified information is within the realm of what they are supposed to do - Trump only cares about himself. This can not stand and I do not see Comey and Mueller putting up with this. Trump has been told the proper ways to deal with the FBI and he doesn’t listen. While I can’t say for sure how much trump knows about the other crimes of his advisers - the fact that Trump won’t stop backing Flynn - who is for all intents and purposes a paid Turkish agent who was trying to more or less figure out how to kidnap a cleric and deport him to turkey. You’ve got one guy with over half a million from Turkey - Manafort with millions of unexplained money from Ukraine (on the part of a pro Russian party) - at least four other advisors with direct financial ties to Russia. Maybe he is just really clueless, but his staff is infected with conflicts to a degree that’s just incredible. We’ve never done anything like this before, but the law certainly provides for many of the conflicts and actions his staff has done. They certainly can be arrested - and who will he have left? He can’t even get people on board that agree with his agenda. He’s going back to people like lewendowski cause he doesn’t trust anyone. I have no idea what exactly is going to happen, but this is not going to be a 3 year thing. Maybe they will have to split up the investigations. Maybe they will pick off a few on other crimes to try and encourage them to stop. Trump is used to be able to lie under oath and use various tricks. That might work in state casino probes, but it won’t fly with an FBI who is on to him. At some point this has to stop. His staff knows he is incompetent, at some point things will just be so ridiculous the republicans will realize if they want anything passed they need to get rid of him. Hopefully at some point the fear in republicans will decrease and the legal pressure on his staff will increase - to the point where he will get a visit by the republicans in congress and told to resign. THIS IS NOT NORMAL ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876/35 "2017-05-19T04:13:40Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I would have thought that Ken Starr would have made Democrats swear off special prosecutors forever. I guess that the opportunity to make a few cheap shots causes memories to become conveniently short. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=826299](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=826299) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-counsel-appointed-in-russia-probe/786876.md?page=1)