# Special forces mistake Afghan boys school for IED cell, execute students **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 15, 2010, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189 "2010-04-15T09:40:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/1 "2010-04-15T09:40:22Z")
[Link](http://theantipress.blogspot.com/2010/04/media-waits-four-months-on-and-still-no.html), [London Times link](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article6971638.ece). Or, “Why Afghanistan is a deadend for the NATO coalition” and why all attempts to win over “hearts and minds” are a failure. US special forces dropped into Afghanistan’s Kunar province come across fighting age males asleep in beds, some as young as 12. Reasoning that any male asleep must belong to an IED cell, the troops restrain them, then execute them one-by-one with silenced weapons. > [@](#): > > As soon as the troops left, Sefatullah ran to his mother’s room and she cut the plastic cuffs that had bound his hands behind his back. “Then they went into one of the rooms, where six people had been sleeping,” Farooq said. “It was dark and my wife walked on her son’s dead body. Then they brought a hurricane lamp.” > > They found Taleb’s son, Rahimullah, 17, and a boy called Samar Gul, 12, dead in a guest room. Taleb said that Samar Gul was staying overnight because he needed some wheat milled and Taleb’s family own the local mill. Shoot first, ask questions later: > [@](#): > > After the soldiers shot the boys they took photographs of their bloodied faces. Farooq said his daughter heard a man curse their informant in the local language, using an expression that implied that the soldiers realised they had been fed bad information. Understatement of the year: > [@](#): > > Nato sources say that the raid should never have been authorised. “Knowing what we know now, it would probably not have been a justifiable attack,” an official in Kabul told The Times. “We don’t now believe that we busted a major ring.” ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/2 "2010-04-15T10:00:43Z")
It says a lot about the enemy that they would “sacrifice” their young like that, but our armed forces should have been aware of disinformation tricks like this by now. Volunteers to plant IED’s must be 10 a afghani over there, so I’d prefer my special forces operatives to be concentrating on more important targets. If they were going into enemy strongholds and taking out their brains and infrastructure, I’d be cheering every battle they took part in, but this sounds just like traffic cops nicking speeding motorists, and even getting that wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/3 "2010-04-15T10:32:10Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > It says a lot about the enemy that they would “sacrifice” their young like that, but our armed forces should have been aware of disinformation tricks like this by now. What are you talking about? They didn’t “sacrifice their young”; we just killed them. It’s our standard pattern of simply declaring any males older than toddlers terrorists after we kill them. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/4 "2010-04-15T10:34:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > What are you talking about? They didn’t “sacrifice their young”; we just killed them. It’s our standard pattern of simply declaring any males older than toddlers terrorists after we kill them. someone fed them midinformatiomn to suggest valid targets were there, presumably to create a backlash in public opinion. This is the sacrifice mentioned I believe. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/5 "2010-04-15T11:32:36Z")
**One And Only Wanderers** believes correctly. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/6 "2010-04-15T11:34:31Z")
Well, if this is true, we had better get the transports ready-we have lost any reason to stay in Afghanistan. Looks like I was right. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/7 "2010-04-15T12:05:20Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > someone fed them midinformatiomn to suggest valid targets were there, presumably to create a backlash in public opinion. This is the sacrifice mentioned I believe. And what makes you think that? Assuming that the “informants” in question even existed, the motivation would more likely be nothing more than profit. And even assuming that **ivan astikov** ’s idea is correct, it wouldn’t have worked if our “heroic” troops weren’t a bunch of amoral, bloodthirsty child killers. _Civilized_ people would have hesitated to kill twelve year olds; but not Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/8 "2010-04-15T12:21:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > _Civilized_ people would have hesitated to kill twelve year olds; but not Americans. _Sleeping_ twelve-year-olds, no less. What makes this story even more outrageous, if that’s possible, is – assuming an informant exists, and wasn’t made up afterward to justify the situation, it’s likely that this was one tribe siccing the Americans on a rival tribe, which has certainly been an issue in Afghanistan. It’s happened before. And again. And again. And again. For years now, we’ve been reading in the news about wedding parties being bombed “because the informant alleged they were Taliban” and it turns out the informant had a grudge against the people he told us were bad guys. This is a recurring theme – and for some inexplicable reason, we keep falling for it, over and over. How is it possible that, knowing this has happened, we keep doing it? What’s our goal here in regards to “hearts and minds” relations with the locals – do we want to be thought of as stupid and easily manipulated, or purely psychopathic and willing to kill on the flimsiest of excuses? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/9 "2010-04-15T12:47:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And what makes you think that? Assuming that the “informants” in question even existed, the motivation would more likely be nothing more than profit. And even assuming that **ivan astikov** ’s idea is correct, it wouldn’t have worked if our “heroic” troops weren’t a bunch of amoral, bloodthirsty child killers. _Civilized_ people would have hesitated to kill twelve year olds; but not Americans. I know nothing of the facts around this incident, I was just conveying the poinjt I had understood ivan to have raised. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/10 "2010-04-15T12:49:36Z")
I’ve worked with U.S. S.F. and they were crap. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/11 "2010-04-15T12:56:33Z")
They didn’t dig the bullets out and try to cover it up at least, unlike another event > [@](#): > > US SPECIAL forces soldiers dug bullets out of their victims’ bodies in the bloody aftermath of a botched night raid, then washed the wounds with alcohol, before lying to their superiors about what happened, Afghan investigators have told The Scotsman. > The incendiary Afghan claims came as Nato admitted last night that it had launched a comprehensive investigation into the operation of 12 February, which was meant to kill insurgents. > > Two pregnant women, a teenage girl, a policeman and his brother were gunned down when US and Afghan special forces stormed their home in Khataba village in eastern Afghanistan. [http://news.scotsman.com/12007/US-troops--dug-out.6203187.jp](http://news.scotsman.com/12007/US-troops--dug-out.6203187.jp) Even if these were the people they were looking for. The people were tied up then executed on the spot. Nice :rolleyes: Not going to do much for the rep of the US as it’s already in the toilet. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/12 "2010-04-15T14:14:11Z")
MPSIMS isn’t the best place for this. I don’t think there’s going to be a debate about this one either. Sending to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/13 "2010-04-15T16:10:17Z")
And you know what, I can lamost guarantee that no one will be held responsible, at least in any meaningful way. ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/14 "2010-04-15T17:03:24Z")
I read that Der Trihs and Sailboat suggest the existence of an informant might be contrived. I’m wondering what they think the real motivation to execute children might be, were this the case. Do they still believe the soldiers to be acting on misinformation of _some_ kind? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/15 "2010-04-15T17:13:38Z")
> [@Walmarticus](#): > > I read that Der Trihs and Sailboat suggest the existence of an informant might be contrived. I’m wondering what they think the real motivation to execute children might be, were this the case. Do they still believe the soldiers to be acting on misinformation of _some_ kind? You clearly didn’t read **Der Trihs** ’ post carefully, as he clearly laid out what he believes the motivation was, namely: > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > our “heroic” troops weren’t a bunch of amoral, bloodthirsty child killers. _Civilized_ people would have hesitated to kill twelve year olds; but not Americans. They need no reason. American soldiers are all evil, what more reason do they need? They just like killing kids. Probably why they all signed up in the first place. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/16 "2010-04-15T17:16:13Z")
> [@Walmarticus](#): > > I read that Der Trihs and Sailboat suggest the existence of an informant might be contrived. I’m wondering what they think the real motivation to execute children might be, were this the case. Do they still believe the soldiers to be acting on misinformation of _some_ kind? If there was an informant (most likely, as the soldiers would not just storm into a place based on NO information) there are a few possibilities: 1. The informant was working for the Taliban, giving disinformation in order to discredit American forces and turn public sentiment against them. 2. The informant was simply wrong, and their information was based on crappy intel. 3. The informant was a member of a different tribe or group, and was using the American soldiers as a proxy to exact revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/17 "2010-04-15T17:22:32Z")
1. There is NO EXCUSE for this sort of incident. Ever. **EVER**! 2. Re-read sentence 1). Now, having said that… …and risking the nuclear vitriol of everyone here, I’ll say two things: I rather doubt that the SF guys in this team went in and did this, _ **knowing** _ they were killing innocent kids. Sleeping kid Taliban/IED planters? Go right ahead; shoot 'em while they sleep! Wouldn’t bother me a whit. US SF teams routinely do all manner of reprehensible schite in the name of freedom and democracy. I’m not saying it’s right. It’s just the way they operate. Now, flay me alive. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/18 "2010-04-15T17:22:44Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > They need no reason. American soldiers are all evil, what more reason do they need? They just like killing kids. Probably why they all signed up in the first place. :rolleyes: Occam’s razor doesn’t stand a chance against **Der Trihs** ’s hammer. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/19 "2010-04-15T17:23:18Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > They need no reason. American soldiers are all evil, what more reason do they need? They just like killing kids. Probably why they all signed up in the first place. :rolleyes: Well if they didn’t tie up and execute 12 year old **Der Trihs** would have to find another broad brush to paint with but this one was basically handed to him. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189/20 "2010-04-15T17:33:10Z")
How can executing a suspect be any way legal or defensible even if they were real honest to god bad people? The article says they were gathered together so it’s not even a case of thinking they might be suicide bombers with the explosives wired to them. This isn’t the actions of the people in white hats. This is black hats shit From the OP link > [@](#): > > “First the foreign troops entered the guest room and shot two of them. Then they entered another room and handcuffed the seven students. Then they killed them. Abdul Khaliq [the farmer] heard shooting and came outside. When they saw him they shot him as well. He was outside. That’s why his wife wasn’t killed.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-forces-mistake-afghan-boys-school-for-ied-cell-execute-students/536189.md?page=2)