# Special needs student can't wear varsity letter jacket. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170 "2015-03-28T00:55:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/81 "2015-03-29T03:39:11Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Yes, “Varsity Letters” are “awarded” for non-athletic activities, such as band, drama, debate, and quiz bowl, but these are clearly marked for the activity. (Also, there are requirements for academic letters, too, such as 3 years for band, 3 productions for Drama, etc.) You can shove your “quotes” up your elitist ass. On top of that, you are wrong, wrong, wrong. As the Debate coach for my school, I set the requirements for who gets a varsity letter in debate. These letters are no different than the ones the jocks wear. I know, because whenever I need to present one, I go get it from the Activities secretary. Same letter, worn on the same jacket. The only markings are the ones the students voluntarily put on them, like bars for competing at the State Championships, or stars for multiple letter awards, or service pins for public service. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/82 "2015-03-29T03:44:52Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > I never used the word “retarded.” Read my post. Nice job of pulling off the prefix. Ah, who cares about accuracy in anything, right? What matters are people’s feelings. Um, calling some kids non-retarded kinda presupposes that somewhere, none members of this group exist, who would be then termed retarded. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/83 "2015-03-29T04:33:25Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > You can shove your “quotes” up your elitist ass. On top of that, you are wrong, wrong, wrong. As the Debate coach for my school, I set the requirements for who gets a varsity letter in debate. These letters are no different than the ones the jocks wear. I know, because whenever I need to present one, I go get it from the Activities secretary. Same letter, worn on the same jacket. The only markings are the ones the students voluntarily put on them, like bars for competing at the State Championships, or stars for multiple letter awards, or service pins for public service. Or the words “Football” or “Debate” embroidered on the jacket, right? ---
**Author:** ![Waterman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Waterman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waterman)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/84 "2015-03-29T04:37:22Z")
When I was in high school (1963-1966) both varsity and junior varsity letters were awarded with the JV letters being smaller versions of the varisyt letters. I do not recall any letters being awarded for non athletic activities. However, **any** student (or anyone) could wear a letter jacket (basically a jacket in the school colors) without any letter sewn on. Back to the issue in the OP, I don’t see why the special needs student in this case simply wear the letter jacket without any attachments. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/85 "2015-03-29T04:45:29Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Or the words “Football” or “Debate” embroidered on the jacket, right? Or not. Most of the stuff embroidered on the jackets are nick-names or some religious twaddle, like a Bible quote. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/86 "2015-03-29T04:46:14Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Um, calling some kids non-retarded kinda presupposes that somewhere, none members of this group exist, who would be then termed retarded. Right? People can presuppose whatever they like. But I wouldn’t recommend referring to children as “retarded,” regardless of how delayed they may be, because the PC brownshirts will absolutely freak out on any diction they have declared anathema. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/87 "2015-03-29T05:26:29Z")
This probably belongs in the thread on Wikipedia. But this article claims, in the first paragraph, that Wichita East has the largest concentration of assholes in the state. > **[Wichita East High School](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita_East_High_School)** > > Wichita East High School, known locally as "East", is a public secondary school in Wichita, Kansas, United States. It is operated by Wichita USD 259 school district. The centrally located school's 44-acre (180,000 m2) campus and the building's Collegiate Gothic styling make it an urban landmark. East's enrollment for the 2018–19 school year was 2,462, making it the largest high school in Kansas. The school offers the International Baccalaureate program, a magnet program that teaches students Wi... ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/88 "2015-03-29T05:51:33Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > What do you think of a student who has not been amitted to NHS wearing a membership pin? > > I’m just not big at all on people falsely presenting themselves as having earned honors or falsely claiming membership in organizations of which they are not a part. Such people are plainly and simply liars. We should not be teaching kids, special needs or otherwise, to lie about their accomplishments. In this case, the whole mess is mom-driven, so I would say she is actually the liar. I honestly don’t think wearing an article of clothing is presenting yourself as anything at all. When I see a kid in a an authentic NFL jersey I don’t think “hey, Adrian Peterson is a lot smaller in real life than I thought he was.” It’s just a jersey man. I agree with you about making false claims but that isn’t the case here. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/89 "2015-03-29T08:04:40Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Are you American? How do you not know this? Every state has a high school athletic association that regulates high school sports. There are rules for every varsity sport regarding eligibility, practices, schedules, regulations, etc. Schools have their own rules regarding “earning a letter,” but at a minimum it requires actually being on the varsity team to get a varsity letter. (This can get dicey, in tennis, for example, because JV players will occasionally “play up”, although they’re not on varsity. At my school, 3 varsity matches get you a letter.) > > Yes, “Varsity Letters” are “awarded” for non-athletic activities, such as band, drama, debate, and quiz bowl, but these are clearly marked for the activity. (Also, there are requirements for academic letters, too, such as 3 years for band, 3 productions for Drama, etc.) > > This kid was NOT a varsity athlete, and his mother bought him a jacket that said he was. He wasn’t. The Down’s Syndrome is irrelevant. > > I don’t know why the school has to show any significant harms in order to ban the kid from pretending to have played varsity basketball. “These are our rules,” should be good enough. I think it would be condescending and insulting for the school to say, “Well, these are our rules for non-retarded kids, but since you’re in a different category the rules don’t apply to you.” The school is doing him a kindness by treating him like everyone else. Did you read my question and prior posts? Why is this kid’s activity not worthy of a letter–that’s the question, not the straw man about earning honors. It’s not about pretending to be a varsity basketball player. It’s about getting a letter for the time, effort and commitment he put into playing in his activity. His district agrees with me, by the way, and they’re working on rectifying this. Which I would gladly cite for you, if I wasn’t too dumb to figure out how to do it on my new iPad. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/90 "2015-03-29T08:37:08Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > That’s how it was in my day, too. > > Anyone could wear the jacket, only those who had earned the privilege could wear the letter (girlfriends wearing their boyfriends’ jacket was an exception, but when a petit cheerleader puts on the football star’s oversized jacket it’s pretty clear it’s a borrowed coat). The letter went to the team, not the individual. If you were part of the team you got the letter even if you weren’t a star player but you had to be on the team. And these days, what if the football star lends his jacket to his boyfriend Bob, can Bob wear it? ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/91 "2015-03-29T08:44:27Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Did you read my question and prior posts? Why is this kid’s activity not worthy of a letter–that’s the question, not the straw man about earning honors. It’s not about pretending to be a varsity basketball player. It’s about getting a letter for the time, effort and commitment he put into playing in his activity. His district agrees with me, by the way, and they’re working on rectifying this. Which I would gladly cite for you, if I wasn’t too dumb to figure out how to do it on my new iPad. Varsity letters are awarded for playing varsity sports. He didn’t play a varsity sport. I don’t know what straw man is being argued. If you’re asking why he couldn’t be given some other award, he obviously could have. But that’s not what his mother did. She could have had a hat, shirt, or jacket embroidered with “Club Basketball,” or “IM Basketball” or even “JV Basketball” (the special needs basketball is sub-varsity, right?) but that’s not what she wanted. She wanted him to have a varsity letter without playing a varsity sport, and the school over-ruled her. I believe you that the district is in the process of over-ruling the principal. The school handled it terribly. The school should have ignored it and made the letters unavailable for general purchase; sell them through the athletic office or something. But to let themselves get dragged into a public fight with an autistic Down’s syndrome kid is just asinine. And who cares if there was a complaint? That’s how policies get enforced, only if some bitchy white lady calls up and complains? (I don’t know if the mom’s white, but she sure sounds white.) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/92 "2015-03-29T09:01:22Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Varsity letters are awarded for playing varsity sports. No, varsity letters are awarded for whatever the school /district says is worthy of them. There are examples in this thread: debate, band, drama, etc. > [@](#): > > I don’t know what straw man is being argued. In this thread, some people seem to very much want this to be a PC, namby-pamby, “you get an award for nothing at all, just so you feel special” type of thing, something the kid did nothing to earn. From what I read, this kid practiced, played–IOW, fully participated–in his activity. Yes, the school (at that point, anyway) had categorized that as not worthy of a letter. The question is, why? Apparently they couldn’t come up with a reason, because they’re in the process of changing their policy. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/93 "2015-03-29T09:06:13Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > The school should have ignored it and made the letters unavailable for general purchase; sell them through the athletic office or something. Unless the letter has some custom logo or something, it’s probably just a standard template that anybody can buy from the same memorabilia company that made it for the school. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/94 "2015-03-29T10:21:43Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > And these days, what if the football star lends his jacket to his boyfriend Bob, can Bob wear it? Hey, I’m cool with that, personally. I’m just telling you how it was 30 or 40 years ago. I don’t think we need “letter police” but I do think that honors should be earned. Now, if the ONLY reason the kid didn’t get a letter was because he is “special needs”, that is, he did everything required to letter and someone said “Down’s kids don’t get it” THAT is a travesty of justice. I think kids who haven’t earned a letter should (if they choose) wear a school jacket without a letter, but buying one you haven’t earned isn’t cool. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/95 "2015-03-29T10:38:27Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I can’t see one good reason for a kid who hasn’t earned these things to go around wearing the jacket or pin that says he has. Its just condescending rubbish. People trying to make themselves feel better by treating the kid different to all the other kids. Give him a badge and pat him on the head and feel smug about how nice you were to the retard. Then come in here and faint in horror at somebody using the word retard, all the while calling for the kid to be treated differently when really he should treated as an equal. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/96 "2015-03-29T10:46:05Z")
Among the special needs this kid has is to be extended special consideration for a disadvantage assigned to him rather capriciously by mother nature. Only an asshole would give a crap what he wears, and only a bureaucracy unable or unwilling to make individual judgments would enforce policy in support of assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/97 "2015-03-29T11:11:09Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > You can shove your “quotes” up your elitist ass. Whoa! Silenus, you should know better. Warning issued. And everyone calm the heck down. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/98 "2015-03-29T11:17:49Z")
The special ed basketball program is something that promotes the school and it is beneficial to have such a program and it does add to the recognition of the school. I would say make it officially a extension of varsity with full letter recognition and award this child the letter jacket. In this try to have the child understand that it had to be done properly and his playing for the school is greatly appreciated. The parent who complained should be credited with bringing this over site to the attention of the school. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/99 "2015-03-29T11:24:00Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > No, princess, what is pathetic is the scorn you are heaping on kids who put a lot of effort into becoming good at something. Something that will help many of them pay for a college education. Something that they find rewarding. My guess is you don’t have this same attitude towards band and the playing of musical instruments, though those things are nothing more than entertainment. Princess? That’s where you go with this? Okey dokey, whatever makes you think you’re winning. And no, I don’t have scorn for athletes. When I say I’m happy for them, it’s true: I am. I’m equally happy for band members who play, and to forestall your objections, I’m equally happy for actors who act, for chess players who play chess, for contortionists who contort, for Starcraft competitors who compete, and so on. It’s great to have something you do for fun, it really is. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/100 "2015-03-29T12:11:17Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Its just condescending rubbish. People trying to make themselves feel better by treating the kid different to all the other kids. Give him a badge and pat him on the head and feel smug about how nice you were to the retard. > > Then come in here and faint in horror at somebody using the word retard, all the while calling for the kid to be treated differently when really he should treated as an equal. Grotonian, if you’re looking for an example of the straw man, here it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170.md?page=6)