# Special needs student can't wear varsity letter jacket. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170 "2015-03-28T00:55:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/141 "2015-03-29T19:34:56Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I can’t believe there isn’t some way to reconcile this. Can’t they hand out letters to everyone who participates in extra-curriculars, but make the competitive ones have a distinctive border, and give sleeve stripes for years in the competitive organization? I’m sure the school loves selling letterman’s jackets, and they’d make a lot more money if they gave more letters. That way they could recognize everyone who participates, without devaluing the competitive sports (debate clubs, academic bowls, whatever). It might even motivate more people to participate in extra curriculars. > > I would have loved having a letter for drama, and would have shelled out for the jacket, even if my letter looked different from the sports letters-- at least I could have had four sleeve stripes for four years participation. This really wouldn’t solve anything, the Mom would just sew on the distinctive border to the letter. I’d get behind changing the school policy to award letters to the Special Needs team’s players, but if that’s not the policy, it isn’t the policy. My kid’s school, at the end of every year, posts in the hallway a paper certificate listing the kids name and where they are going to college (almost all of the students do.) There are always some Harvard’s and Yale’s and Stanford’s mixed in. The student who is going to cosmetology or truck driving school don’t get to request that theirs say MIT or Cal Tech instead. The school does it to honor their students, and there are rules. Everyone knows what they are, and they just deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/142 "2015-03-29T19:37:09Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Some school systems do that without checking whether the students who couldn’t meet the requirements were special ed, even. > > The whole thing is pretty alien to me, but what I don’t understand, in this and in many other cases, is these people who apparently believe that the first step in changing a rule they don’t like is breaking it, followed by whinning to the press. Are they so antagonic in every other activity? Do they think the world owes them, or that anybody who isn’t ra-rah-ing them is their enemy? 😕 Probably. You should see the fights (and even lawsuits) that come about over naming someone Valedictorian. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/143 "2015-03-29T20:03:41Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > I can buy this argument to some extent maybe. But I think then the argument should be taken to the source; such as the board that determines what sports can have a letter grade. I agree with that. If that was my kid, I would have made someone explain to me why this was their policy and would have lobbied to change it if the explanation was arbitrary. I was responding to the notion that the kid shouldn’t get a “feel good” letter because he didn’t earn it. From I’ve read, the only reason it isn’t worthy of a letter is that the school has decreed it so. Other schools with the same circumstances have decided otherwise. He’s not asking to be awarded an A because he tried so hard. His mom (and I) think that a kid who is committed and fully participating in a challenging (for him) activity shouldn’t miss out on the letter “because it is not a varsity level competition.” For that kid, it is a varsity level competition in every meaningful sense of the word–it requires commitment, competition, lots of work, school spirit, etc. IMO, the school should be proud to have him wear the letter. It demonstrates their support of what is best about student athletics. That’s also why the non-special ed kid who road the bench all year, but made every practice and worked his ass off, still deserves a letter. He could have spent his Friday nights watching television, but he committed himself to something more constructive. So did this kid. As I said previously, it doesn’t appear to me that he wants a letter for taking the trash out. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/144 "2015-03-29T20:11:05Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > The whole thing is pretty alien to me, but what I don’t understand, in this and in many other cases, is these people who apparently believe that the first step in changing a rule they don’t like is breaking it, followed by whinning to the press. Are they so antagonic in every other activity? Do they think the world owes them, or that anybody who isn’t ra-rah-ing them is their enemy? 😕 This whole debacle has nothing to do with the kid. It’s all about his insecure, petulant mommy. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/145 "2015-03-29T20:12:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Do we know for sure she didn’t? > > If she didn’t, then she probably should have. But that doesn’t affect what the school should have done in response to her actions. The school received a complaint about a school policy violation. The school responded by enforcing it’s policy. A parent, or parents, did nothing wrong by bringing the violation to the attention of the school. The school did nothing wrong by enforcing it’s rule(s). As I understand it, the school policy is that no one can wear a varsity letter without their permission, and that permission requires that the wearer earn the right to wear the letter. School policy can be changed. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/146 "2015-03-29T20:13:41Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > This whole debacle has nothing to do with the kid. > > It’s all about his insecure, petulant mommy. Actually, the really messed up mother in the story seems to be the _grown woman_ who bothered to _call the administration_ to complain about a Special Ed kid wearing a freaking letter. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/147 "2015-03-29T20:26:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > As I understand it, the school policy is that no one can wear a varsity letter without their permission, and that permission requires that the wearer earn the right to wear the letter. > > School policy can be changed. It’s perfectly likely that that policy is unconstitutional–if he’s not disrupting class through his clothing choices, they may not be able to forbid his wearing the jacket. I’m also suspicious that this policy was issued in writing before he wore the jacket, but I could well be wrong. And even if it is their policy, and if it’s a constitutional policy, and it was in place in writing prior to this incident, it’s still a dumb policy. I have no problem with the mom, **under these specific circumstances** , choosing to defy the policy. And much more importantly, I have a clear problem with the school’s enforcement of this policy. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/148 "2015-03-29T20:44:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s perfectly likely that that policy is unconstitutional–if he’s not disrupting class through his clothing choices, they may not be able to forbid his wearing the jacket. I’m also suspicious that this policy was issued in writing before he wore the jacket, but I could well be wrong. > > And even if it is their policy, and if it’s a constitutional policy, and it was in place in writing prior to this incident, it’s still a dumb policy. I have no problem with the mom, **under these specific circumstances** , choosing to defy the policy. And much more importantly, I have a clear problem with the school’s enforcement of this policy. I’m not sure how the policy could be considered unconstitutional because it applies equally to everyone. And schools have a right to set their own policies, provided that those policies adhere to state and federal laws. Everyone must receive a trophy is not yet a state or federal law. (Is it?) Students are rewarded for exceptional performance. That used to be a good thing. Now it’s grounds for a lawsuit. :rolleyes: I have no problem with the school granting young Kelley, or his team mates, an exemption to its varsity letter wearing policy, but if everyone is issued a varsity letter, then there is no longer a reason to issue varsity letters. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/149 "2015-03-29T20:49:58Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I’m not sure how the policy could be considered unconstitutional because it applies equally to everyone. Because that’s not the hurdle that makes it constitutional. As I understand it, schools are permitted to restrict free expression to the extent that said expression creates disruption. If they said no one may wear a t-shirt with a particular political message, for example, they better be able to explain why permitting such a message creates undue problems for them. I think that’s LHOD’s point. On what basis does the school get to say “you may not wear this”? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/150 "2015-03-29T20:52:12Z")
Shodan is the first and lowest level of black belt in judo (there are ten levels). Next month marks the fortieth anniversary of my being promoted to that level. I have never attempted promotion beyond that. I checked once - I have enough competition points, time in grade, teaching experience, and kata demonstration points that I could (in theory) be a sixth degree. One guy I trained with is a sixth degree. It is a lot easier now to get promoted than it was forty years ago. It is not as bad as it is in some other martial arts, where everybody and his brother can make black belt if you pay the promotion fees, but it is bad enough. Bad enough that the whole ranking system has been cheapened. As long as you collect the required amount of dust, you can get promoted whether your skills merit it or not. And that does cheapen my rank. > [@Syndrome](#): > > If everybody is special, then nobody is special. If any moron, in this case almost literally, can get an award, then the award means nothing. If _the school_ had decided they wanted to award this kid an honorary letter, that would be one thing. For his mommy to decide that she was going to award him a letter, and to hell with what the school says, that is another. Some things in life only have value if they are _not_ easy to do, and if not everybody can do them. That’s the point of some kinds of awards - a recognition, not simply of effort, but of a real achievement. Effort is a great thing, and nothing worthwhile can be achieved without it. But some kinds of recognition are for achieving, not for making an effort. Some kinds of awards are given, not because you did your best, but because you did your best and succeeded. It’s too bad this kid has Down syndrome. But he does. That means he is not going to be able to win a lot of the awards that you get only when you achieve something. That doesn’t mean he is less than human, or that his feelings aren’t important, or anything like that. If the school wants to give the special needs basketball team its own letters, or something like that, fine. But they shouldn’t graduate him if he can’t read or spell his name, and his mother shouldn’t claim he graduated when he failed all his tests, even if he tried really hard. Is this as important as high school graduation? No, of course not. But did the kid actually letter in varsity? No, he didn’t. If his mother wants to play Let’s Pretend and say he did, let her do it on her own time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/151 "2015-03-29T20:59:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Shodan is the first and lowest level of black belt in judo (there are ten levels). Next month marks the fortieth anniversary of my being promoted to that level. > > I have never attempted promotion beyond that. I checked once - I have enough competition points, time in grade, teaching experience, and kata demonstration points that I could (in theory) be a sixth degree. One guy I trained with is a sixth degree. It is a lot easier now to get promoted than it was forty years ago. It is not as bad as it is in some other martial arts, where everybody and his brother can make black belt if you pay the promotion fees, but it is bad enough. Bad enough that the whole ranking system has been cheapened. As long as you collect the required amount of dust, you can get promoted whether your skills merit it or not. > > And that does cheapen my rank. If any moron, in this case almost literally, can get an award, then the award means nothing. WHat if any moron can go to a store and [purchase a black belt](http://www.blackbeltshop.com/elite_satin_black_belt.htm)? Does that mean the award means nothing? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/152 "2015-03-29T21:00:10Z")
IANAL, but since this can’t be considered political speech and if the rule is a written part of their dress code it’s probably Constitutional. Quick googling seems to show that nothing of this sort has gotten very high up in the courts. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/153 "2015-03-29T21:05:58Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > He’s not asking to be awarded an A because he tried so hard. His mom (and I) think that a kid who is committed and fully participating in a challenging (for him) activity shouldn’t miss out on the letter “because it is not a varsity level competition.” For that kid, it is a varsity level competition in every meaningful sense of the word–it requires commitment, competition, lots of work, school spirit, etc. IMO, the school should be proud to have him wear the letter. It demonstrates their support of what is best about student athletics. That’s also why the non-special ed kid who road the bench all year, but made every practice and worked his ass off, still deserves a letter. He could have spent his Friday nights watching television, but he committed himself to something more constructive. So did this kid. As I said previously, it doesn’t appear to me that he wants a letter for taking the trash out. No he- or more accurately, she- doesn’t want the letter for taking the trash out. She wants to redefine the meaning of the letter so that her son can have one. She doesn’t want it redefined so that any kid who demonstrates commitment and hard work and does something constructive can have one. I didn’t notice anywhere in the article where she said the members of the chess club, the robotics club, the National Honor Society, the drama club, the band , the student council,the Key Club, JROTC, kids who play on teams not affiliated with the school or the kids who work on the school newspaper and so on should be given a varsity letter. It seems she’s just fine with restricting the varsity letters to those who are athletes on school teams- just as long as her son can get one. While I was trying to find out exactly which activities the school in question has (wasn’t able to) , I found [this](http://www.kansascity.com/sports/high-school/article16660988.html) According to the principal, the incident happened a over a year ago, the kid was not told to remove the jacket and perhaps most importantly: > [@](#): > > Currently, students who participate on the special-needs basketball team are awarded a letter, but one that looks different than the one for varsity athletes. > > Similarly, students lettering in fine arts programs, JROTC or student leadership can earn letters, but they also are different from varsity letters. So it seems she doesn’t want simply recognition for her son- the special needs athletes get a letter. She wants the him to have the same symbol as the varsity athletes- even though the other letter-earning activities earn letters that look different from the varsity letters. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/154 "2015-03-29T21:11:41Z")
Ah. Okay. If he was never told to remove the jacket, that pretty entirely changes my view of the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/155 "2015-03-29T21:17:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > WHat if any moron can go to a store and [purchase a black belt](http://www.blackbeltshop.com/elite_satin_black_belt.htm)? Does that mean the award means nothing? Yes, if you wear it in a context where it means you are claiming the rank. I would have thought that obvious to anyone who read my post. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/156 "2015-03-29T21:20:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, if you wear it in a context where it means you are claiming the rank. I would have thought that obvious to anyone who read my post. Seriously? So I, who never got beyond yellow belt when I was a kid, could buy that black belt online and show up at a tournament as a spectator, and if I were wearing my purchased blackbelt and told people I’d earned it, that would make your earned belt mean nothing? Seriously? You might think that’s obvious. I think it’s incredible. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/157 "2015-03-29T22:02:39Z")
I think you are a little caught up in being iconoclastic if that is so hard to understand. The varsity letter and judo belt are status symbols originally awarded on achievements. When the symbol is no longer awarded based on achievements, it loses it’s value. I am sure Shodan is still happy with his actual training and accomplishments but the belt has lost its value. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/158 "2015-03-29T23:20:42Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I think you are a little caught up in being iconoclastic if that is so hard to understand. The varsity letter and judo belt are status symbols originally awarded on achievements. When the symbol is no longer awarded based on achievements, it loses it’s value. I am sure Shodan is still happy with his actual training and accomplishments but the belt has lost its value. The symbol never held any value except what the giver and receive put in it. Symbols have no intrinsic value. Why would I put less value in a symbol just because someone else got it through a different avenue than the one I got it through? This isn’t me being iconoclastic; this is me genuinely not seeing how that would work, absent weird superstition about symbols. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/159 "2015-03-29T23:21:44Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > By the way, do JV teams get letters? At my high school (California, 1996-2000), JV player were awarded letters, with a “JV” prominently displayed in the middle. I got one. I don’t recall ever seeing anyone wear one. I mean, I’m happy that I participated in a sport in high school, even if I wasn’t good enough to make the varsity team, but I can’t imagine being proud enough of my basically average athletic performance to buy a jacket and wear it. I support a school rule that says you can’t wear a letter you didn’t earn. I also think it doesn’t make much of a difference if there’s a rule or just a custom that’s socially enforced. Can you imagine the public shaming that would result when the other kids know your mom bought it? I’d also support expanding letters to give those who excel in other ways patches of recognition that they could wear on a jacket, but I don’t really think that will make much of a difference either. I wouldn’t have worn a patch for any of the things I was actually good at in high school because they were academic pursuits that high school society does not reward. Varsity football players aren’t cool in high school because they have special jackets, and getting a jacket like theirs will not make you cool, either. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170/160 "2015-03-29T23:30:17Z")
This thread should have “Glory Days” playing in the background whenever it’s opened up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-needs-student-cant-wear-varsity-letter-jacket/716170.md?page=9)