# "Special rights" for Christians? Free speech? Airborne spam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894 "2003-06-05T18:37:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/41 "2003-06-06T06:19:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Would you go to a family oriented program regularly if you knew the leader liked to look at small children and fantasize about them? He may never touch the children, or break a law regarding child porn, but his personal sexual prefernce is a great bit different than yours, and you prolly wish he would stop or go to whatever damnation you currently subscribe to. Any congregation that thinks this is comparable to homosexuality is a pack of drooling idiots, completely undeserving of respect, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/42 "2003-06-06T06:20:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*It doesn’t, it constitutes a hatred of _everybody_. \*\* By that standard, a great number of the world’s religions preach hatred of everybody, since most promise the ultimate rewards of the hereafter only to that faith’s adherents. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/43 "2003-06-06T06:22:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*Hey, **gobear** , if you want righteous indignation, go look up my latest Pit thread. Maybe we ought to just learn to “laugh it off” since it’s “no big deal.” :rolleyes: > > And I really didn’t intend this to become an anti-Christian thread or homosexuality debate, but I should have known… > > Esprix \*\* Poor Esprix ☹ Sorry I helped hijack the thread!! I’ll stop if everyone else will (it’s not like we’ll come to a consensus on this tangent anyway) and stick to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/44 "2003-06-06T06:22:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spite \* > Excuse me then. Intentionally misinformed, I should have said. > > That link you cited seems to me about a church who does not want a leader who they think leads an intentional life of sin. > > Would you go to a family oriented program regularly if you knew the leader liked to look at small children and fantasize about them? He may never touch the children, or break a law regarding child porn, but his personal sexual prefernce is a great bit different than yours, and you prolly wish he would stop or go to whatever damnation you currently subscribe to. Again, homosexuality has as much relation to child molestation as heterosexuality does. Kindly stop confusing the issue. > [@](#): > > “BWAHAHAHA. You are about 30 years behind the times.” Your reference to Red-book-carrying Chinese communists. Mao’s quotations are sold in flea markets nowadays (I bought mine in Xi’an.) China is definitely authoritarian, but the doctrinaire Communism of the Cultural Revolution died with Mao Zedong. Hu Jintao’s China is as capitalist as McDonald’s, which has an assload of outlets in the PRC. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Snoopyfan_ > If homosexuality is a sin, and I believe it is, and Jesus died to break the bondage of ALL sin, it would follow that yes, I believe Jesus can set people free from homosexuality. And I believe that a library card can free you from the sin of ignorance. Praise Melville Dewey! BTW, **Dewey** , am I still supposed to believe **Snoopyfan** is merely a disinterested supporter of First Amendment rights? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/45 "2003-06-06T06:26:11Z")
> [@](#): > > I believe Jesus can set people free from homosexuality. One of my best friends killed himself because Jesus _wouldn’t_ “set him free” from homosexuality. You can’t just pray it away, you know. It’s not like it hasn’t been tried. Christianity never turned anybody straight. (and it’s kind of offensive to suggest that homosexuality is something that people need to be “freed” from.) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/46 "2003-06-06T06:26:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SnoopyFan \* > \*\*If homosexuality is a sin, and I believe it is, and Jesus died to break the bondage of ALL sin, it would follow that yes, I believe Jesus can set people free from homosexuality. \*\* And with that, we part company. The position you endorse is a tacit endorsement of bigotry. Equating homosexuality with adultery, theft, and other sins is inconsistent with the Christian message. **gobear** was wrong to not have given you the benefit of the doubt. I am saddened to see that, having extended that courtesy to you, my charitable view of your posts was misplaced. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/47 "2003-06-06T06:28:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spite \* > That link you cited seems to me about a church who does not want a leader who they think leads an intentional life of sin. > > Would you go to a family oriented program regularly if you knew the leader liked to look at small children and fantasize about them? He may never touch the children, or break a law regarding child porn, but his personal sexual prefernce is a great bit different than yours, and you prolly wish he would stop or go to whatever damnation you currently subscribe to. Equating homosexuality with pedophilia. Truly the mark of a great, respectable Christian person. Generous of spirit, charitable in your heart, you really do embody the love of Jesus Christ when you go around doing crap like that. Your scare tactics are about as dated as your understanding of modern Asian politics. Can’t you come up with any new bogeymen to wave at the congregation? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/48 "2003-06-06T06:28:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*BTW, Dewey, am I still supposed to believe Snoopyfan is merely a disinterested supporter of First Amendment rights? \*\* No. But neither are you supposed to jump to conclusions without giving the accused the chance to explain him or herself. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/49 "2003-06-06T06:29:03Z")
Re: the church getting kicked out of the organization. Are religious groups no longer allowed to set standards for their leaders and churches in their organization and remove said leaders/churches when they do not live up to said standards? **BTW, Dewey, am I still supposed to believe Snoopyfan is merely a disinterested supporter of First Amendment rights?** Oh I get it. Christians only support freedom of speech for other Christians. I forgot! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/50 "2003-06-06T06:31:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SnoopyFan \* > \*\*Oh I get it. Christians only support freedom of speech for other Christians. I forgot! \*\* That isn’t what he’s saying. He’s saying that _in addition to_ your admirable first amendment views, you also hold some fairly noxious views on homosexuality vis-a-vis Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/51 "2003-06-06T06:32:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*By that standard, a great number of the world’s religions preach hatred of everybody, since most promise the ultimate rewards of the hereafter only to that faith’s adherents. \*\* Actually, this isn’t true. Very few of the world’s religions teach that. Most religions say that being a good person is all that is required. The doctrine that only “we” can go to heaven is pretty much a Christian thing, and not even all Christians believe it. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/52 "2003-06-06T06:32:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SnoopyFan \*Oh I get it. Christians only support freedom of speech for other Christians. I forgot! Well, the last time the gay youth support group got invited to speak to a couple of classes at a local junior high school, the Christians certainly seemed to put aside their concerns about freedom of speech posthaste. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/53 "2003-06-06T06:33:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*And with that, we part company. > > The position you endorse is a tacit endorsement of bigotry. Equating homosexuality with adultery, theft, and other sins is inconsistent with the Christian message. > > **gobear** was wrong to not have given you the benefit of the doubt. I am saddened to see that, having extended that courtesy to you, my charitable view of your posts was misplaced. \*\* Inconsistent with the Christian message? How so? Dewey, thing is, you’re doing the same thing gobear is doing. Sure, gobear prejudged me and flipped out right away while you maintained a cooler head. But the second I say something that you do disagree with, I’m suddenly an untouchable. How is that expressing the “tolerance” you expect me to display? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/54 "2003-06-06T06:36:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*No. But neither are you supposed to jump to conclusions without giving the accused the chance to explain him or herself. \*\* I wasn’t jumping to conclusions. I read exactly where she was coming from. I know an antigay tone when I see one. And, no, **Snoopyfan** , I did not “flip out.” I defended myself from your hateful rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/55 "2003-06-06T06:37:10Z")
**He’s saying that in addition to your admirable first amendment views, you also hold some fairly noxious views on homosexuality vis-a-vis Christianity.** Simply saying something is a sin is “noxious?” ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/56 "2003-06-06T06:38:32Z")
**I defended myself from your hateful rhetoric.** Explain how I was hateful. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/57 "2003-06-06T06:41:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*I wasn’t jumping to conclusions. I read exactly where she was coming from. I know an antigay tone when I see one. \*\* I don’t give a shit if you have super-sensitive bigotry radar built into your eyeballs. You should always give somone the benefit of the doubt and provide them with an opportunity to explain themselves before you start casting serious aspersions on their character. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/58 "2003-06-06T06:41:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SnoopyFan \* > \*\ ***I defended myself from your hateful rhetoric.** > > Explain how I was hateful. \*\* A. You equated homosexulaity with pedophilia. B. You called my life and my relationship “sinful.” Who made you a judge? More to the point, why should your superstition have any effect on how I live? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/59 "2003-06-06T06:41:41Z")
Don’t you love when fundies pull this injured and confused act? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894/60 "2003-06-06T06:42:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SnoopyFan \* > \*\*Simply saying something is a sin is “noxious?” \*\* In this case, yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/special-rights-for-christians-free-speech-airborne-spam/179894.md?page=4)