# Specifically, The Deleterious Effects of Illegal Immigrants on the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151 "2015-10-10T15:14:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/21 "2015-10-11T20:22:18Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > [Are these folks high on PCP:]([http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#Current](http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#Current) and Historical) > > _Restrictive immigration legislation in 1921 and 1924, coupled with the Great Depression and World War II, led to a sharp drop in new arrivals. As a result, the foreign-born share steadily declined between the 1930s and 1970s, reaching a record low of approximately 5 percent in 1970 (9.6 million). Since 1970, the share and number have increased rapidly, mainly as a result of large-scale immigration from Latin America and Asia made possible by changes to admission rules adopted by Congress in 1965. Since 1970, the number of U.S. immigrants more than quadrupled as it grew from 9.6 million in 1970 to 41.3 million in 2013._ > > Seems we are, in fact, functionally more open to the world today than we have ever been. Immigration in the past 4 decades has largely come from the developing world. Do you contest that? _smack_ If you include illegal immigrants, then yes there are a lot of immigrants. But that hardly constitutes a “an open and generous immigration policy”. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/22 "2015-10-12T02:22:32Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > _smack_ > > If you include illegal immigrants, then yes there are a lot of immigrants. But that hardly constitutes a “an open and generous immigration policy”. We do take in about a million legal permanent residents a year, a third of them from the Americas, and the country from whom the largest number of legal immigrants come is Mexico, so it’s not it’s impossible to immigrate. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/23 "2015-10-12T02:45:02Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > We do take in about a million legal permanent residents a year, a third of them from the Americas, and the country from whom the largest number of legal immigrants come is Mexico, so it’s not it’s impossible to immigrate. How many of those are sponsored by family members? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/24 "2015-10-12T12:58:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Which leads to the same question that could be asked about marijuana: what problems of illegal immigrants couldn’t be solved by legalizing them? It depends on what is meant by “legalizing them”. If you mean an amnesty for those already here, that is one thing. If you mean automatically granting citizenship to everyone who can get into the country, that is another. Which did you mean? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/25 "2015-10-12T14:37:58Z")
When you import a people you also import their culture. Culture means more than their wonderful food and horrible music, it means their attitudes toward education, law, politics, etc. These aspects of culture are why their old lands were filled with poverty. If there are enough immigrants from one country they end up reproducing their old culture in the new country instead of assimilating into the new culture. The transition of neighborhoods can be hard on those living in them. It is like how gentrifying neighborhoods can be hard on those living in them. If Salvadoreans start to move into neighborhood that used to be majority black, those black people who stay will see less soul food restaurants and more pupuserias, more spanish language churches and radio stations, and in general less amenities that are focused on what they like and more on what the newcomers like. Even if the crime rate is lower among immigrants, it is not zero. The Migration Policy Institute estimates that there are 690,000 illegal immigrants who have been convicted of a felony or serious misdemeanor offense. Since clearance rates are around 50% that implies a figure of 1.38 million illegals that have committed serious crimes. This is 1.38 million more criminals in our midst than there would be if no illegal immigration exists. Even though there are not eligible for welfare illegal immigrants cost governments in other ways. The local governments need to pay for their children’s education and health care. They use the roads and other public services such as police. Because so many are working in low skill jobs it is unlikely that governments will make up in taxes what they pay for the illegal immigrants. The increased supply of low skilled immigrants bids down the wages for local low skilled workers which means they have lower incomes and thus rely more on government. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/26 "2015-10-12T14:44:22Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > First, they get exploited. They cannot really work legally without some fudging of the Social Security setup. So they work “under the table”. (Or, some do). This creates additional problems. Unlike home-grown minimum wage workers, they will work for less than minimum wage because it’s still better than back home in the mud hut. “Mud hut”? Where or when do you think these immigrants are coming from? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/27 "2015-10-12T14:44:27Z")
> [@](#): > > When you import a people you also import their culture. Culture means more than their wonderful food and horrible music, it means their attitudes toward education, law, politics, etc. These aspects of culture are why their old lands were filled with poverty. If there are enough immigrants from one country they end up reproducing their old culture in the new country instead of assimilating into the new culture. The transition of neighborhoods can be hard on those living in them. That sounds a lot like Michael Savage. Borders language culture. As if that was the national motto. I don’t think anyone thinks major cities would be better off without a Chinatown or a Little Italy. I say sure, bring your food and music. We might like some, we might like it all, but it gives us all more choices. This rot about bringing their political attitudes is much concern about nothing. If their ideas don’t catch on with their new neighbors, they won’t go far. Let’s be more welcoming and less afraid. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/28 "2015-10-12T15:33:50Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > How many of those are sponsored by family members? In total, about half are immediate family members, and about 20% are let in under family sponsored preferences. For Mexico specifically, about 63% are immediate family members, and 26% from family sponsored preferences. This is using the 2013 records. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/29 "2015-10-12T17:41:40Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > As long as we are in GQ, however, can you explain whether and how these illegal immigrants are getting welfare? Since Welfare ended in 1996 with the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act, it’s unlikely. Various States can allow other aid programs, of course. All the ones I worked with were hard working people doing Jobs Americans dont care to do- backbreaking onerous agriculture labor. The pay wasnt bad, but almost no benefits. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/30 "2015-10-12T17:44:44Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > The problem with illegal immigrants? Where to begin? > > First, they get exploited. They cannot really work legally without some fudging of the Social Security setup. So they work “under the table”. (Or, some do). T Almost none do. They simply get a bogus SSN, and use that. This allows the Employer “plausible deniability” and also keep the IRS out of it, since Employment Tax fraud issues can shut a business down really fast. Most "illegals’ file Income taxes. And of course they help fund SocSec without getting anything back. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/31 "2015-10-12T17:48:23Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Also, certain forms of welfare like emergency room care can be abused by people who are here illegally. If an illegal immigrant is shot, he or she still receives medical care paid for with tax dollars that he or she isn’t contributing to. Similarly, the various societal benefits we get from institutions like law enforcement are being afforded to people who aren’t engaged in the responsibilities (fiscal and otherwise) that contribute to these benefits. > > And, as mentioned by others, the vast majority of illegal immigrants are low-skilled workers. Their willingness to work at below-legal wage scales lowers the overall wages received by the lower-and-middle classes. Oddly, those most hurt by a large influx of illegal immigrants are those who are already most vulnerable in our society: unskilled laborers who are typically from minority communities. Almost all “illegals” pay taxes. > **[Study Finds Illegal Immigrants Pay $11.8B in Taxes](https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/04/16/Study-Finds-Illegal-Immigrants-Pay-118B-Taxes)** > > A new nationwide study on the fiscal implications of illegal immigration concludes that millions of undocumented im _The 50-state analysis by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released on Thursday found that roughly 8.1 million of 11.4 million undocumented immigrants who work paid more than $11.8 billion in state and local taxes in 2012, even while they were living illegally in the country._ [http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/high-school/top-10-myths-about-immigration](http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/high-school/top-10-myths-about-immigration) _Immigrants don’t pay taxes. Immigrants pay taxes, in the form of income, property, sales, and taxes at the federal and state level. As far as income tax payments go, sources vary in their accounts, but a range of studies find that immigrants pay between $90 and $140 billion a year in federal, state, and local taxes. Undocumented immigrants pay income taxes as well, as evidenced by the Social Security Administration’s “suspense file” (taxes that cannot be matched to workers’ names and social security numbers), which grew by $20 billion between 1990 and 1998. (Source: [http://www.immigrationforum.org/about/articles/tax\_study.htm](http://www.immigrationforum.org/about/articles/tax_study.htm)) Immigrants come here to take welfare. Immigrants come to work and reunite with family members. Immigrant labor force participation is consistently higher than native-born, and immigrant workers make up a larger share of the U.S. labor force (12.4%) than they do the U.S. population (11.5%). Moreover, the ratio between immigrant use of public benefits and the amount of taxes they pay is consistently favorable to the U.S. In one estimate, immigrants earn about $240 billion a year, pay about $90 billion a year in taxes, and use about $5 billion in public benefits. In another cut of the data, immigrant tax payments total $20 to $30 billion more than the amount of government services they use. (Source: “Questioning Immigration Policy - Can We Afford to Open Our Arms?”, Friends Committee on National Legislation Document #G-606-DOM, January 25, 1996. http:www.fas.org/pub/gen/fcnl/immigra.html)_ They dont work for below minimum wage- in fact since most are Ag workers, they get paid piecework, which can actually pay quite well (it’s really hard backbreaking work, tho). And, the average inner city citizen isn’t willing or skilled to perform those Ag jobs, nor could they get from the inner city to the Ag districts to do them if they wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/32 "2015-10-12T19:56:20Z")
Because of illegal immigrants the Taco Bell near me went out of business and is now something called a “taqueria.” Where am I supposed to get tacos now? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/33 "2015-10-12T20:22:28Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Because of illegal immigrants the Taco Bell near me went out of business and is now something called a “taqueria.” Where am I supposed to get tacos now? Hilarious! ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/34 "2015-10-14T03:48:50Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > We do take in about a million legal permanent residents a year, a third of them from the Americas, and the country from whom the largest number of legal immigrants come is Mexico, so it’s not it’s impossible to immigrate. Around half of those million new permanent residents are not newly arrived, but people who came on non-immigrant visas and receive an adjustment of status. Examples include refugees applying for permanent residence, those who originally came on H1B or other work visas, and people who entered on fiancé(e) visas and got married. As noted, most of the legal immigrants from Mexico are immediate family (spouses, parents, children, or more rarely siblings) of current U.S. citizens or permanent residents. If you are an ordinary Mexican national without close kin already stateside and if you don’t fall into one of the special categories (world-class athletes, certain religious workers, wealthy investors, etc.), the U.S. won’t even allow you to apply for an immigrant visa. There is no category for “ordinary hard-working person who wants to be an American.” In the late 1800s/early 1900s, the U.S. routinely admitted a million or more immigrants a year (when the resident population was much lower anyway), and most of those WERE “ordinary hard-working people who wanted to be Americans.” ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/35 "2015-10-14T04:58:45Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t think anyone thinks major cities would be better off without a Chinatown or a Little Italy. I think that, and I think the “spicy food” argument for mass immigration is the stupidest one. I would gladly eat nothing but meat loaf or roast chicken with gravy, mashed potatoes, and cooked peas every day for the rest of my life, if it meant getting to live in a white, Anglo country. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/36 "2015-10-14T10:36:22Z")
Immigration is ok if its in small numbers and controlled. The way I see it the “melting pot” works only when immigrants can assimilate. That is get jobs and fit in with the current culture. Of course they add to that culture by bringing in their own uniqueness. The problems come when its uncontrolled and the host country is unable to cope. So often what we are seeing in the US is some small town of say 10,000 people suddenly get 500 new immigrants who dont speak the language and come from an entirely different culture who suddenly need housing, services (ex. medical), education, and employment. Now 10-20 people into a town of 10,000 - no problem. 500-2000 BIG problem! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/37 "2015-10-14T12:13:27Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > I would gladly eat nothing but meat loaf or roast chicken with gravy, mashed potatoes, and cooked peas every day for the rest of my life, if it meant getting to live in a white, Anglo country. How does it feel knowing there is no true “white Anglo” country left, and there will never be one for you to dwell in? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/38 "2015-10-14T14:06:13Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > How does it feel knowing there is no true “white Anglo” country left, and there will never be one for you to dwell in? Well, there’s still Boston Market. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/39 "2015-10-14T14:13:48Z")
The worst effect of illegal aliens in this country are these arguments about them. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/40 "2015-10-14T18:31:41Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > When you import a people you also import their culture. Culture means more than their wonderful food and horrible music, it means their attitudes toward education, law, politics, etc. These aspects of culture are why their old lands were filled with poverty. If there are enough immigrants from one country they end up reproducing their old culture in the new country instead of assimilating into the new culture. Do you have any evidence that this really happens? And if you do, do you have any evidence that it’s a _negative_ change? Because otherwise you are echoing a stupid complaint by a very intelligent person, [Ben Franklin](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2008/02/swarthy-germans/48324/): > [@](#): > > [W]hy should the Palatine Boors be suffered to swarm into our Settlements, and by herding together establish their Language and Manners to the Exclusion of ours? Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion. You’d think we’d learn but, no, we bitch about the same stupid (and wrong) things we bitched about 250 years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151.md?page=3)