# Specifically, The Deleterious Effects of Illegal Immigrants on the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151 "2015-10-10T15:14:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/41 "2015-10-14T18:55:56Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > I think that, and I think the “spicy food” argument for mass immigration is the stupidest one. I would gladly eat nothing but meat loaf or roast chicken with gravy, mashed potatoes, and cooked peas every day for the rest of my life, if it meant getting to live in a white, Anglo country. None of those foods are “white Anglo” in origin. [Meatloaf](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meatloaf) is about as international as you can get. [Roasted chicken](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roast_chicken) is not native to white anglos either. The ubiquitous [potato](http://www.gmo-safety.eu/basic-info/259.tartufoli-mashed-potato-princely-delicacy-poor-dish.html) is from South America (Andes). The lowly [pea](http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Pea) hails from that bastian of white anglos in Northern Africa and Western Asia. ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/42 "2015-10-14T19:07:53Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > I think that, and I think the “spicy food” argument for mass immigration is the stupidest one. I would gladly eat nothing but meat loaf or roast chicken with gravy, mashed potatoes, and cooked peas every day for the rest of my life, if it meant getting to live in a white, Anglo country. I would too. Unfortunately, the powers that be have determined that White countries are not allowed to exist, and that all White countries must be culturally enriched via mass third-world immigration. PS: Why is it progressive to think that only foreign people can create foreign food but racist to think that only European people can continue Western civilization? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/43 "2015-10-14T19:55:10Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > I would too. Unfortunately, the powers that be have determined that White countries are not allowed to exist, and that all White countries must be culturally enriched via mass third-world immigration. > > PS: Why is it progressive to think that only foreign people can create foreign food but racist to think that only European people can continue Western civilization? I don’t know about you, but I like a variety of foods to choose from. Has anyone ever seriously complained about there being too much ethnic food in the American culinary scene? Entire TV networks are dedicated to celebrating the variety of foods available to the average American. Can I safely assume that you don’t consider this to have negatively impacted your eating experience? Now, for the sake of the OP, please demonstrate in what way your experience and enjoyment of Western Civilization has suffered due to immigration. ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/44 "2015-10-14T22:50:44Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I don’t know about you, but I like a variety of foods to choose from. Has anyone ever seriously complained about there being too much ethnic food in the American culinary scene? Entire TV networks are dedicated to celebrating the variety of foods available to the average American. Can I safely assume that you don’t consider this to have negatively impacted your eating experience? > > Now, for the sake of the OP, please demonstrate in what way your experience and enjoyment of Western Civilization has suffered due to immigration. As Arcite noted above, “spicy food is good” is probably the least compelling argument possible for flooding White nations with mass immigration. What are you going to tell your grandchildren, that you turned America into the third world so you could have tacos and kebab? And since you asked for it: I’m white. And having to live around people who aren’t white ([that is, 88% of immigrants](http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/european-immigrants-united-states)) [reduces voter registration, infrastructure investment, loan repayment rates, political efficacy, charitability, quantity of friendships, trust, civic health, happiness, and quality of life.](http://scholar.harvard.edu/robertputnam/publications/e-pluribus-unum-diversity-and-community-21st-century-2006-johan-skytte-pri) So yeah, having to live around people who aren’t like me has made my life worse, and it’s probably made your life worse too, no matter how much you profess to love people of color. That’s made it harder to acheive things that Western civilization values and increases the chance of all sorts of terrible things that the West wants to avoid, like crime, war, and atomization. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/45 "2015-10-14T23:01:48Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > I’m white. And having to live around people who aren’t white ([that is, 88% of immigrants](http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/european-immigrants-united-states)) [reduces voter registration, infrastructure investment, loan repayment rates, political efficacy, charitability, quantity of friendships, trust, civic health, happiness, and quality of life.](http://scholar.harvard.edu/robertputnam/publications/e-pluribus-unum-diversity-and-community-21st-century-2006-johan-skytte-pri) > . That’s a 10 year old article, based upon a 16 yo poll and the results were fairly ambiguous. And had nothing directly to do with illegal aliens, rather more with ethnic heterogeneity. And were contradicted in this 2011 study. [http://epubs.surrey.ac.uk/15382/2/Sturgis(2011)%20Does%20ethnic%20diversity%20erode%20trust.pdf](http://epubs.surrey.ac.uk/15382/2/Sturgis(2011)%20Does%20ethnic%20diversity%20erode%20trust.pdf) So, maybe that was true 16 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/46 "2015-10-14T23:24:42Z")
Illegal immigrants are happy to do jobs that Americans are unwilling to do-- like building a fence between the US and Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/47 "2015-10-14T23:54:03Z")
And harvesting tomatoes, lettuce and strawberries. So you folks can have them cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/48 "2015-10-15T00:00:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s a 10 year old article, based upon a 16 yo poll and the results were fairly ambiguous. And had nothing directly to do with illegal aliens, rather more with ethnic heterogeneity. > > And were contradicted in this 2011 study. > [Research Portal](http://epubs.surrey.ac.uk/15382/2/Sturgis(2011)%20Does%20ethnic%20diversity%20erode%20trust.pdf) > > So, maybe that was true 16 years ago. The Putnam study [was prize-winning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Skytte_Prize_in_Political_Science) and conducted by a top researcher in the field, who was a political liberal no less. Moreover, the conclusion that diversity is harmful has been supported by [multiple](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10464-013-9608-0) [other](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1018371903799) [studies](http://asr.sagepub.com/content/80/3/550). A random study conducted in a field where \>90% of scholars are liberals doesn’t contradict the clear scientific consensus that diversity reduces social trust and other measures of well-being. Also, your claim that Putnam’s study was “fairly ambiguous” is absurd. He clearly shows that diversity reduces a number of measures of well-being. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/49 "2015-10-15T00:05:05Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > So yeah, having to live around people who aren’t like me has made my life worse, and it’s probably made your life worse too, no matter how much you profess to love people of color. That’s made it harder to acheive things that Western civilization values and increases the chance of all sorts of terrible things that the West wants to avoid, like crime, war, and atomization. So you have manned up and owned up to that it’s NOT about “illegals”, that it’s simply about “people who aren’t like you”. Congratulations, we appreciate that honesty. Would that everyone gave it to us that straight. (however, yes, appreciation of spicy food is a really lame example of the benefits of the melting pot; stop that, everyone) Of course, history is so full of examples that if left to their own, European Caucasians would live in a utopian paradise free from crime, war and atomization :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/50 "2015-10-15T00:09:15Z")
Here’s a block quote from the Putnam study for the doubters: > [@](#): > > The evidence that diversity and solidarity are negatively correlated (controlling for many potentially confounding variables) comes from many different settings: > > • Across workgroups in the United States, as well as in Europe, internal heterogeneity (in terms of age, professional background, ethnicity, tenure and other factors) is generally associated with lower group cohesion, lower satisfaction and higher turnover (Jackson et al. 1991; Cohen & Bailey 1997; Keller 2001; Webber & Donahue 2001). > > • Across countries, greater ethnic heterogeneity seems to be associated with lower social trust (Newton & Delhey 2005; Anderson & Paskeviciute 2006; but see also Hooghe et al. 2006). > > • Across local areas in the United States, Australia, Sweden, Canada and Britain, greater ethnic diversity is associated with lower social trust and, at least in some cases, lower investment in public goods (Poterba 1997; Alesina et al. 1999; Alesina & La Ferrara 2000, 2002; Costa & Kahn 2003b; Vigdor 2004; Glaeser & Alesina 2004; Leigh 2006; Jordahl & Gustavsson 2006; Soroka et al. 2007; Pennant 2005; but see also Letki forthcoming). > > • Among Peruvian micro-credit cooperatives, ethnic heterogeneity is associated with higher default rates; across Kenyan school districts ethno-linguistic diversity is associated with less voluntary fundraising; and in Himalayan Pakistan, clan, religious, and political diversity are linked with failure of collective infrastructure maintenance (Karlan 2002; Miguel & Gugerty 2005; Khwaja 2006). > > • Across American census tracts, greater ethnic heterogeneity is associated with lower rates of car-pooling, a social practice that embodies trust and reciprocity (Charles & Kline 2002). > > • Within experimental game settings such as prisoners-dilemma or ultimatum games, players who are more different from one another (regardless of whether or not they actually know one another) are more likely to defect (or ‘cheat’). Such results have been reported in many countries, from Uganda to the United States (Glaeser et al. 2000; Fershtman & Gneezy 2001; Eckel & Grossman 2001; Willinger et al. 2003; Bouckaert & Dhaene 2004; Johansson-Stenman et al. 2005; Gil-White 2004; Habyarimana et al. 2006). > > • Within the Union (northern) Army in the American Civil War, the casualty rate was very high and the risks of punishment for desertion were very low, so the only powerful force inhibiting the rational response of desertion was loyalty to one’s fellow soldiers, virtually all of whom were other white males. Across companies in the Union Army, the greater the internal heterogeneity (in terms of age, hometown, occupation, etc.), the higher the desertion rate (Costa & Kahn 2003a). That’s 33 sources, in addition of course to his own research. And here’s the list of ways that diversity reduces things that we value: > [@](#): > > • Lower confidence in local government, local leaders and the local news media.17 > • Lower political efficacy – that is, confidence in their own influence.18 > • Lower frequency of registering to vote, but more interest and knowledge about politics and more participation in protest marches and social reform groups.19 > • Less expectation that others will cooperate to solve dilemmas of collective action (e.g., voluntary conservation to ease a water or energy shortage).20 > • Less likelihood of working on a community project.21 > • Lower likelihood of giving to charity or volunteering.22 > • Fewer close friends and confidants.23 > • Less happiness and lower perceived quality of life.24 > • More time spent watching television and more agreement that ‘television is my most important form of entertainment’.25 ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/51 "2015-10-15T00:19:29Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > So yeah, having to live around people who aren’t like me has made my life worse Have you considered emigration? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/52 "2015-10-15T00:35:32Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Have you considered emigration? But where to? Alas, there are no more pure White places to emigrate to any more! All the liberals have let the terrible brown people move into _everywhere_! . ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/53 "2015-10-15T00:56:07Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > That sounds a lot like Michael Savage. Borders language culture. . Three things that define a country. ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/54 "2015-10-15T01:05:15Z")
> [@andros](#): > > But where to? Alas, there are no more pure White places to emigrate to any more! All the liberals have let the terrible brown people move into _everywhere_! > . You failed at sarcasm because your statement (apart from the “terrible” part) is objectively true. There aren’t any countries that don’t have vibrancy inflicted upon them from within or from outside. The most White areas now are inhospitable northern regions too cold for urban youth to inhabit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/55 "2015-10-15T01:07:36Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > You failed at sarcasm because your statement (apart from the “terrible” part) is objectively true. There aren’t any countries that don’t have vibrancy inflicted upon them from within or from outside. The most White areas now are inhospitable northern regions too cold for urban youth to inhabit. Are you talking about Vermont? (95.3% white + 1.3% Asian, aka honorary white people) ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/56 "2015-10-15T01:16:20Z")
As well as other places like Russia, Maine, Alaska (excluding Native Alaskans), and Alberta. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/57 "2015-10-15T01:17:24Z")
I’m still laughing at the idea of America as a “white nation”. If that was the goal, maybe someone should have thought that through before settling on Native American land, bringing over thousands of Africans and then buying a chunk of Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/58 "2015-10-15T01:27:14Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > The Putnam study [was prize-winning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Skytte_Prize_in_Political_Science) and conducted by a top researcher in the field, who was a political liberal no less. Moreover, the conclusion that diversity is harmful has been supported by [multiple](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10464-013-9608-0) [other](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1018371903799) [studies](http://asr.sagepub.com/content/80/3/550). A random study conducted in a field where \>90% of scholars are liberals doesn’t contradict the clear scientific consensus that diversity reduces social trust and other measures of well-being. > > Also, your claim that Putnam’s study was “fairly ambiguous” is absurd. He clearly shows that diversity reduces a number of measures of well-being. No, the Poll results upon which he based his paper were “fairly ambiguous” . In any case, his article is based upon \*\*16 year old data. \*\* More recent poll results have shown public opinion has changed. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/59 "2015-10-15T01:42:10Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > There aren’t any countries that don’t have vibrancy inflicted upon them from within or from outside. The most White areas now are inhospitable northern regions too cold for urban youth to inhabit. Wait, wait, now again you moved from the broad “people who are not like you” to a specific subdemographic of “urban youth”, a majority of whose families have had ancestors in the country for centuries. So now it’s not even outsiders! Make up your mind who’s the threat so we know which one of us you need to thank for relieving you of the White Man’s Burden. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151/60 "2015-10-15T02:20:08Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > You failed at sarcasm because your statement (apart from the “terrible” part) is objectively true. There aren’t any countries that don’t have vibrancy inflicted upon them from within or from outside. The most White areas now are inhospitable northern regions too cold for urban youth to inhabit. The horse isn’t the state-of-the-art in transportation any more. People are only going to move around more in the future. Ethnic homogeneity is an accident of pre-modern technology, and nothing more. You may as well wax nostalgic about deaths from cholera. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-the-deleterious-effects-of-illegal-immigrants-on-the-us/734151.md?page=4)