# Specifically, why are some people so disturbed by another's childfree status? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 18, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927 "2014-11-18T01:25:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/41 "2014-11-18T15:11:05Z")
Count me as another wondering where all these “disturbed” people are. I was childfree until I was 43, when we adopted two sisters. Some of our friends were having their first grandchildren already. Never received any grief about it. ---
**Author:** ![JuliaSqueezer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/82dd89/32.png) [@JuliaSqueezer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JuliaSqueezer)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/42 "2014-11-18T15:16:42Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I’m childless somewhat by circumstance and somewhat by choice. Never had a strong urge to replicate my genetic material and married the wrong person at the time of life when it would have made sense to have kids. By the time I met and married the right fellow, it was too late – and we were both fine with that. (Since he died 7 years ago, I’m even more fine with it.) > > Provoked by nothing more than my matter-of-fact statement that I had no children, I was recently told by a smug person (who has kids, naturally) that I was a dead branch on the tree of life. Nice, huh? > > I pointed out that trees do better when they receive regular pruning… so maybe he should be grateful for people like me. > > People are nuts. Much of what Aspenglow says rings true for me, also. I always thought I’d have kids. The timing was just never right. I ended up with a great career, involving near constant international travel. I’m retired now, and enjoying being a bit of a homebody. As noted, the smugness of those with children (and now, grandchildren) can be a bit wearing, but I ignore their lack of manners and small-mindedness as much as I can. The egregious offenders tend to be the types who pontificate that, because I have no children, I cannot voice any opinion about a child’s behavior, even as the child is smearing jam on my jeans. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/43 "2014-11-18T15:26:30Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You know, I had a kid slightly on the late side, and I’ve never experienced this. At most I got some mild inquiries from my mother (who understandably would like grandkids) and normal polite conversation (“Do you have kids?” “No” “Oh, I have two daughters. Are you a football fan…”) > > I have, however, experienced a particularly vocal subset of “childfree” folks who think children should not be allowed in public or mentioned in polite company, lest they be exposed to the dread terrors of “hearing kids play in the park”, “seeing a child in a restaurant”,or God forbid “small talk about kids at the office.” So very true. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/44 "2014-11-18T15:46:30Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > So very true. This. My oldest and dearest friend loved to throw around the term “breeders” and squawked every time I brought my daughter around. She was one of the first people I encountered in the “child-free” movement, and she swore she’d never bring a child into this cold hard world just to make it suffer and then die eventually. And then in her late thirties she got pregnant accidentally and magically formed a bond with her fetus. Since then of course all we hear about is her special snowflake. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/45 "2014-11-18T15:48:36Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > Count me as another wondering where all these “disturbed” people are. I was childfree until I was 43, when we adopted two sisters. Some of our friends were having their first grandchildren already. Never received any grief about it. See post #39, among others. This is so interesting: Once again, nobody says they are the ones baffled by the childfree, and/or that they bingo their childfree relatives/friends/etc. ---
**Author:** ![Lowdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Lowdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lowdown)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/46 "2014-11-18T15:50:38Z")
I had my first son when I was thirty-eight. I had my second son a few months ago at forty. Before they arrived, I really had no interest or disinterest in having kids. I simply didn’t think about it. I can’t say I ever ran into someone who was disturbed over my status. It never came up. I have, however, run into a few people who make a point of informing everyone they meet that they aren’t going to have kids and the reasons why. It’s sort of like people who don’t own televisions. They tend to mention it. All the time. I don’t care if you have kids or want kids, or whatever else. The only thing I do kind of take issue with is people who state that they are so much happier BECAUSE they don’t have kids, since it’s a stupid thing to say. How can you know you’re happier? You can’t. ---
**Author:** ![JuliaSqueezer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/82dd89/32.png) [@JuliaSqueezer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JuliaSqueezer)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/47 "2014-11-18T15:59:39Z")
> [@Lowdown](#): > > It’s sort of like people who don’t own televisions. They tend to mention it. All the time. Or vegans. Or Crossfit devotees. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/48 "2014-11-18T16:03:05Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > See post #39, among others. > > This is so interesting: Once again, nobody says they are the ones baffled by the childfree, and/or that they bingo their childfree relatives/friends/etc. Allow me to suspect that those reporting regular harrassment are in the minority, or have relatives and friends belonging to ethnic or religious communities that are more traditional than the mainstream, or are getting reactions to strident declarations of childfree emancipation/ ‘anti-natalism’. Like several other posters, I had my kid late - I was 38 - and never wanted any when younger: did not hear a peep of harrassment, aside from knowing my mom wanted grandkids. My wife, likewise (she was 39). It seems to me that, as someone mentioned upthread, there is a lot of “begging the question” in this thread. It isn’t so much “interesting” that no-one in this thread “says they are the ones baffled by the childfree, and/or that they bingo their childfree relatives/friends/etc.”, as it is evidence that this behaviour isn’t nearly as universal as assumed in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/49 "2014-11-18T16:10:34Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > See post #39, among others. > > This is so interesting: Once again, nobody says they are the ones baffled by the childfree, and/or that they bingo their childfree relatives/friends/etc. I think you misunderstand. I didn’t say I wasn’t baffled by the childfree. I said i WAS the childfree during the years when most of my peers had children, and no one ever gave me any grief about it, or “bingoed” me, whatever that means. Several other childfree people have stated the same thing. If being disturbed by someone else’s childfree status is so common, why have we never experienced it? I suspect it’s because that attitude may be common _in certain circles_, and that those of us who never experienced it aren’t/weren’t in one of those circles. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/50 "2014-11-18T16:23:14Z")
Another ‘WTF?!’ to the OP. My sisters didn’t have kids, a few couples we’re close with didn’t have kids, I didn’t become a parent until age 55 (not a typo), and I’ve never seen evidence of this negative reaction. Now occasionally I’ll hear **of** childless people and couples saying their tax dollars shouldn’t pay for schools for other people’s kids, but the ‘of’ is key: that sort of thing gets amplified in the news and on blogs and whatnot because there’s enough people for whom such a debate is catnip that it’ll get a lot of clicks. It’s not clear to me that many childfree people actually feel that way, though I’m open to evidence that they do. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/51 "2014-11-18T16:27:08Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > I think you misunderstand. I didn’t say I wasn’t baffled by the childfree. I said i WAS the childfree during the years when most of my peers had children, and no one ever gave me any grief about it, or “bingoed” me, whatever that means. Several other childfree people have stated the same thing. If being disturbed by someone else’s childfree status is so common, why have we never experienced it? > > I suspect it’s because that attitude may be common _in certain circles_, and that those of us who never experienced it aren’t/weren’t in one of those circles. Right, my first line was just to call attention to somebody saying that it happens to them a lot. That was in response to your post. My second line was about the thread in general. Lots of people in the world face these negative and/or bewildered judgments, often frequently, and yet in threads like this it seems much less common. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/52 "2014-11-18T16:34:54Z")
To respond to the OP: yes, there are people who are quite disturbed about some couples choosing not to have children - including posters on this board, and numerous people [emoting elsewhere on the Internet](http://www.babble.com/kid/the-problem-with-married-couples-who-have-no-kids/). What’s mind-boggling to me are the number of parents who believe (or want us to believe) that they have made sacrifices for the sake of Society (or for the preservation of humanity (!)) and are resentful of those who “selfishly” live for each other without children, as though these “selfish” folk don’t pay into the system to support the schooling, health care etc. of those who do have children (and have reproduced for quite “selfish” reasons). You wanted kids (in most cases, anyway), you got 'em. Raise them right, and my hat’s off to you. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/53 "2014-11-18T16:36:47Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Like several other posters, I had my kid late - I was 38 - and never wanted any when younger: did not hear a peep of harrassment, aside from knowing my mom wanted grandkids. My wife, likewise (she was 39). > > It seems to me that, as someone mentioned upthread, there is a lot of “begging the question” in this thread. It isn’t so much “interesting” that no-one in this thread “says they are the ones baffled by the childfree, and/or that they bingo their childfree relatives/friends/etc.”, as it is evidence that this behaviour isn’t nearly as universal as assumed in the OP. This is a hugely gendered issue. I have rarely heard of a man being questioned or criticized about whether or not to have children. Women tend to get it much more aggressively. Not wanting children is a species of defective femininity. Iwould compare it to “being a stay at home parent.” Women may be questioned to a certain degree but a man who stays home with the kids is widely regarded as a freak of sorts; maybe an unemployable loser, dependent, defective in their masculinity. Just like women and men will have different experiences when discussing the decision to be a stay at home parent, they will have different experiences when it comes to stating they don’t want kids. I honestly am not maternal and think I would make a terrible mother. Infants have all the appeal of a large squirming maggot to me. I don’t think it’s selfish at all to spare a human being my apathy towards their well being and/or existence. Quite the contrary, a person who has kids without wanting them, to make it easier to fit in, and then neglects their needs, is the selfish one. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/54 "2014-11-18T16:49:30Z")
I view it in the same vein as people’s general discomfort with picky eaters. Just like food-sharing is a communal ritual ingrained in us from pre-history, so is the common experience of child-rearing. Someone deliberately choosing to remove themselves from that ‘sharing’ is going to get looked at askance. And of course they will also be defensive in return, and it’s a feedback loop. That said, there are ways to be childfree that will not occasion comment, just like having a ‘selective palate.’ ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/55 "2014-11-18T16:54:47Z")
I actually like kids. Not all kids, just like I don’t like all people, but on the whole they are OK. I do object to having kids everywhere. I don’t care about kids at McDonald’s but don’t bring your tiny kids to a nice steakhouse unless they can behave. Don’t bring your two year old to the Dark Knight returns. Kids need to be at Disney. Do they really need to be in a casino? I have seen mothers wheeling their infant children in the hallways of the casinos - they can’t take them inside of course, but why they brought them to a _casino_ I have no idea in the first place. But whenever I say stuff like this I get characterized as a childhater. But I definitely don’t want any of my own. I have been told, over the years, that: - I am not a “real woman” because I don’t have kids - I will never achieve fullfillment and happiness - I don’t really get an “understanding” until I’ve had them (understanding of what, she didn’t say) - That I’ll change my mind - That it will be different once I have my own - That I am selfish for not having one - That I’ll regret it - That I’m doing my parents, my husband’s parents, and my husband a disservice Etc. Some of these are mild, as you can see. Some of them are downright offensive - really? I’ll never be a real woman? The thing is, there is this childfree faction that’s truly batshit, which is unfortunate. I like the term “childfree” because it differentiates me from people who really want children and can’t have them, but it’s been appropriated by some truly crazy people who want children to disappear from the world. I don’t want that. I would appreciate some childfree spaces, though. I would like childfree airplanes, movies, even apartments. Clinton is the one who passed the law that only senior housing can eliminate children, which is unfortunate. I wouldn’t have minded living in a childfree neighborhood. But neither am I up in arms about it or protesting. But please believe me when I say, childfree/less people do get harassed about their choice not to have kids. And it comes from everywhere, at any time. I swear to you I am not aggressive. This is how the last conversation went: I was at an event for our company. A woman comes up pushing her little tyke. She is adorable and I say so! All smiles. The woman and I get to chatting. She says, “Do you have kids?” I smile and say no, I don’t have any. She immediately says, “You should have some, it really gives you an understanding.” What? An understanding of what? And when did I give you permission to give me some intimate and important advice? And that is how the conversation goes, all the time. Sometimes I pre-empt it and say, again with a smile, “No, I’ve just never been interested.” They get a smug smile and say, “Oh, you’ll change your mind.” I’ll say, “I’d rather be an auntie and spoil them rotten.” And I still get pushback! ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/56 "2014-11-18T17:14:26Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > This is a hugely gendered issue. I have rarely heard of a man being questioned or criticized about whether or not to have children. Women tend to get it much more aggressively. Not wanting children is a species of defective femininity. > > Iwould compare it to “being a stay at home parent.” Women may be questioned to a certain degree but a man who stays home with the kids is widely regarded as a freak of sorts; maybe an unemployable loser, dependent, defective in their masculinity. > > Just like women and men will have different experiences when discussing the decision to be a stay at home parent, they will have different experiences when it comes to stating they don’t want kids. Right, which is why I pointed out that my wife’s experience - and she had the kid when 39, which is considered somewhat late, after not being interested prior - was similar to mine. Or at least, so she says. ---
**Author:** ![jayrey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@jayrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayrey)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/57 "2014-11-18T17:23:14Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > The selfish label is interesting. Rejecting innate biological desires out of concern for the well being of others should be called altruism. Seems to me the selfish label is more appropriately to those parents who want to bring little versions of themselves into the world so they can love them and nurture them like pets. Or use them as surrogates to live out their own life goals. Or save the marriage. Or let the parents be satisfied over some egotistical, scientifically dubious sense of familial immortality. Well, well said. I suspect my brother, who claimed he never wanted children and then did a complete 180 when his daughter was born\*, believes to this day that I was acting selfishly when I chose not have children while I still could. He’s wrong. As \*\*marshmallow \*\*points out, it was, in fact, altruism. I knew that I would not be a good mother. More on the OP’s topic, I haven’t been subject to any significant shaming on the topic, even from my brother. Yes, my mother mentioned that she’d like grandchildren, but she didn’t push it and I let my brother fulfill the request. I don’t recall anyone ever saying to me, “oh, yes you do, you just don’t know it yet,” in response to my saying I didn’t want children. Maybe I just run around with a more polite crowd. 🆒 - My brother’s wife saw their marriage crumbling and thought having a baby would cement it back together so she stopped her birth control without telling him. My brother is an honorable man and did the right thing by staying, but he stayed solely for his daughter (and, in truth, his step-daughters) but never spend another night in his wife’s bed or contributed any money to the interior design business she solely owned. He was there in body but not in spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/58 "2014-11-18T17:26:42Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > The thing is, there is this childfree faction that’s truly batshit, which is unfortunate. I like the term “childfree” because it differentiates me from people who really want children and can’t have them, but it’s been appropriated by some truly crazy people who want children to disappear from the world. I don’t want that. I would appreciate some childfree spaces, though. I would like childfree airplanes, movies, even apartments. Clinton is the one who passed the law that only senior housing can eliminate children, which is unfortunate. I wouldn’t have minded living in a childfree neighborhood. But neither am I up in arms about it or protesting. Even “not up in arms or protesting”, wishing for child-free neighbourhoods is not an “excluded middle”. It’s firmly off to one side. When I was child-free (most of my adult life), I never once though ‘you know what would be really nice? To eliminate children from my neighbourhood!’. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/59 "2014-11-18T17:32:00Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Right, which is why I pointed out that my wife’s experience - and she had the kid when 39, which is considered somewhat late, after not being interested prior - was similar to mine. Or at least, so she says. Sorry maybe I misunderstood. You said your wife had children later, not that she ever told people she specifically didn’t want children. No one really questions anyone, man or woman, who wants kids, only, “later”. You might get a mild lecture on “waiting too long” but having kids later in life is pretty accepted at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927/60 "2014-11-18T17:34:50Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Even “not up in arms or protesting”, wishing for child-free neighbourhoods is not an “excluded middle”. It’s firmly off to one side. > > When I was child-free (most of my adult life), I never once though ‘you know what would be really nice? To eliminate children from my neighbourhood!’. I wouldn’t say an entire neighborhood, but if my condo building was adults only I’d be happy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/specifically-why-are-some-people-so-disturbed-by-anothers-childfree-status/704927.md?page=4)