# SPECTRE - Bond film. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 3, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558 "2015-11-03T22:01:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/101 "2015-11-17T17:07:47Z")
He’s more than \*just \*an assassin. It isn’t all he does, but assassination is one of his functions. In the books it was stated that he earned the OO prefix by cvarrying out two assassinations. \*Casino Royale \*showed the same. He has carried out a few other kills to order in the movies. Calling him an assassin is accurate and fair. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/102 "2015-11-17T17:18:04Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Ironically, there’s LICENSE TO KILL, where Bond simply decides that a guy needs to stop breathing, and Her Majesty’s Secret Service tells him _‘no’,_ and Bond clarifies that, _no, see, I get that you tell me what to do, and I kill people, but you seem to think there’s a causal relationship; thing is, though, I do as I see fit, and it usually just happens to be what you wanted. All apologies for any confusion._ > > Bond then goes on a mission to kill the guy. Bond then kills the guy. The end. Well, Bond is never “just” an assassin – it wouldn’t make for good cinema. But the story _The Living Daylights_ is essentially about precisely that – Bond being an assassin. And the beginning of the film of the same name plays out in much the same way, right down to Bond holding his fire and not shooting the Russian female assassin who’s posing as a musician. Of course, they couldn’t stop therre – not enough movie. And for the film, she’s not really an assassin, and she’s not simply posing as a musician – she is one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/103 "2015-11-17T20:33:33Z")
There’s also the pre-credits mission in GOLDFINGER, sort of: 007 puts _his_ explosives atop the _enemy_ cache of explosives – after using his grappling-hook gun and scuba gear to get the drop on a guard our hero promptly kayos – and everything explodes as soon as he makes an appearance somewhere else in his white Look-At-Me dinner jacket, and, well, that’s pretty much _it,_ right? (Sure, his _next_ mission involves investigation and interpersonal skills – but this one is just ‘sneak in and out and leave behind a bomb that will kill anyone in there’.) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/104 "2015-11-17T22:37:29Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The list of ridiculous Bond plots is long; the list of Bond movies that could fairly be described as “sensical” is short and might start and end with _Casino Royale_. While there are a number of Bond movies for which the plots make little sense and exist primarly as a framework for jumping from one location to another, many of the films are actually well-plotted and more-or-less consistent, especially _From Russia With Love_, _Thunderball_, _For Your Eyes Only_, and _The Third Man_-inspired _The Living Daylights_. (_On Her Majesty’s Secret Service_ had a fairly generic Bond plot wrapped around what was essentially a tragic love story and the best portrayal of Blofeld, albeit having curiously forgotten what Bond looks like; it’s best considered a seperate continuity from the prior Connery films.) _Casino Royale_ actually makes little sense insofar as MI-6 apparears to have concrete evidence of Le Chiffre’s duplicity (in high risk investing of his client’s funds) and could just grab him and threaten to turn him over even prior to the poker game. Pitting Bond up against Le Chiffre is unnecessary and makes little sense, especially since despite Bond’s boasting of how he is adept at “playing the man in front of you” rather than the odds of the card draw, Bond ends up winning by getting the absolutely best hand of a fantastically unlikely set of four hands. (I once worked out the odds on the final set of hands and it was a number so absurdly high that this combination has almost certainly never been seen in the history every hand ever played of Texas Hold 'Em ever, nor is there any hand that is actually poorly played or bluffed.) > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > There’s also the pre-credits mission in GOLDFINGER, sort of: 007 puts _his_ explosives atop the _enemy_ cache of explosives – after using his grappling-hook gun and scuba gear to get the drop on a guard our hero promptly kayos – and everything explodes as soon as he makes an appearance somewhere else in his white Look-At-Me dinner jacket, and, well, that’s pretty much _it,_ right? Correction; Bond is blowing up opium in the heroin processing lab which was being used to fund some kind of revolt. (“At least they won’t be using heroin flavored bananas to finance revolutions.”) Bond set the timer and is looking at his watch (the famous Rolex Submariner on what is now known as the “NATO Bond strap” (although the DEF STAN 66-15 “G10” strap didn’t even exist when _Goldfinger_ was filmed and was never offered in the regimental olive and grey color scheme) as the timer sets off the explosives. In _Spectre_, things just seem to explode for no reason whatsoever in a fashion totally random even by the standards of the most ludicrous Bond films. His escape from the Morrocan observatory/fuel refinery/call center was especially absurd, with henchmen falling to single shots fired by Bond at extreme range like blind stormtroopers before the entire base is demolished in an explosion that even Michael Bay would regard as egregious. It’s one thing that Bond should be triumphant, but he hardly seemed to even be expending any effort or be in any distress despite just having two holes bored through his skull and being fired upon by dozens of people without any effective cover. The film itself lacked a single line of memorable dialogue, unless you consider the repeated, “You are like a kite dancing in a hurricane, Mr. Bond,” being drummed into the viewers consciousness as in any way remarkable, and the final sequence, with Bond somehow knocking out both engines of a helicopter with a single shot from a Walther PPK at a distance of hundreds of feet, is beyond perposterous. But the absolutely worst, most inexcusable flaw–no doubt made in some effort to be topical–is the lame excuse for the villian’s master plot, i.e. to operate a surveillance network manually accessing camera feed, network traffic, and cell phones to…collect data so he can get even with Bond for being the focus of his father’s affections? So, basically, SPECTRE is really labor intensive and ineffectual version of Google that exists exclusively so satisfy Oberhauser’s jealous rage? This is literally a more lame plot that _The Man With The Golden Gun_ and _Die Another Day_ combined. At this point, I prefer to think that Bond has been in a semi-coma state since his torture at the hands of Le Chiffre and the subsequent three films have just been fever dreams. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/105 "2015-11-17T23:00:30Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Correction; Bond is blowing up opium in the heroin processing lab which was being used to fund some kind of revolt. (“At least they won’t be using heroin flavored bananas to finance revolutions.”) Bond set the timer and is looking at his watch (the famous Rolex Submariner on what is now known as the “NATO Bond strap” (although the DEF STAN 66-15 “G10” strap didn’t even exist when _Goldfinger_ was filmed and was never offered in the regimental olive and grey color scheme) as the timer sets off the explosives. Oh, I heard the line he delivers; I just also saw the big thing marked NITRO, is all. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/106 "2015-11-17T23:07:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > … Bond ends up winning by getting the absolutely best hand of a fantastically unlikely set of four hands. … This is standard Hollywood cliche poker. The climactic hand is always won by our hero, because he draws a royal flush, or at the very worst 4 aces. Never because he has 2 pair and everyone else folds. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/107 "2015-11-17T23:47:31Z")
Sure, but Bond makes much of how great he is at reading other players. What we see in the film is that he reads a blatant ‘tell’ (although it is actually a fake ‘tell’ that Le Chiffre uses to fool him, which makes Bond look like even more amateur), and in the winning hand everybody makes the textbook correct play given the odds of holding a successful hand, which means that Bond won purely by luck. (To be fair, since they are playing baccarat chemin de fer in the novel he wins by luck there, also.) It’s pretty apparent, at least from the example of 007, that the vaunted “Double Oh” section is actually just a distraction along the lines of _Spies Like Us_ to distract the opposition and public from actual effective counterintelligence and direct action operations being performed by more low key and effective operators, which has ironically encouraged the development of equally inept criminal ‘masterminds’ intent on ‘defeating’ Bond. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/108 "2015-11-18T01:02:13Z")
Casino Royal is perhaps my favorite Bond movie, but the poker part is unfortunate. It is obviously made for people who don’t really understand poker, and maybe have a vague idea about it and know that a royal flush is good. They should’ve just stuck to baccarat, or at least not make the pretense that Bond is a superior player. Anyway great movie. Too bad the reboot was wasted with: - The inoffensive but also immemorable Quantum of Solace, in which the bad guy wants to sell slightly more expensive water. - Skyfall which had the most annoyingly nonsensical plot of all Bond movies. - Spectre in which Blofeld was ‘revealed’ to be Bond’s foster brother, somehow behind Silva, and I can’t even continue making this one line summary because it’s so stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/109 "2015-11-24T02:40:30Z")
Saw it last Saturday. Not one of the better efforts, but a part of the problem for me is I tend to see a Bond film once and then forget about it, so the references to previous films largely go over my head and cause confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/110 "2015-11-24T14:10:41Z")
Such typical, contrived crap. Car chase, explosions, fist fights, bad dialogue. Don’t kill Bond when you really want him dead, just rig him to an elaborate trap and neglect to strip him of his explosive watch. That’s how dead you want him. And don’t diverge with the narrative. Bond finds Rogue Agent A at exotic location A, threatens him until he reveals Rogue Agent B at exotic location B, threatens _him_ until he reveals Secret Scientist at Location C, who reveals where the Secret Base is, which Bond infiltrates successfully until the end of the movie. Jesus Christ, I’m seriously almost done with Bond movies. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/111 "2015-11-25T03:21:54Z")
We just got back from this. As best as I can tell, this was a capstone project created by the USC School of Cinematic Arts, in which the students were broken into teams and each given three minutes to come up with the most formulaic Bond scenes they could imagine. Then those scenes were knitted together into a script by unpaid interns, and that script was directed by the guy who cheated on Kate Winslet. And explosions! Roll film! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/112 "2015-11-28T21:52:39Z")
I agree with much of the criticism here, although I enjoyed the movie as I watched it. Not nearly as good as _Casino Royale_, better than _Quantum of Solace_, about as good as _Skyfall_, I’d say. Good stuff: Lively Day of the Dead parade… exciting helicopter fight… beautiful cinematography… shoutouts to lots of other Bond movies… M and Q and Moneypenny all good… Dr. Swann was an unconventional beauty but held her own with Bond… “M” for moron and “C” for careless… Bond and the girl in the classic car at the end. Bad stuff: Two impromptu brain drillings don’t affect Bond’s aim or flying skills in the least; he can also walk away from a plane crash and easily break plastic hand restraints… who would put Moriarty, of all people, in charge of British national intelligence?.. Blofeld’s desert base blows up like a used Pinto… uh, getting DNA from lots of people on a single SPECTRE ring? I thought the mouse in the _L’Americain_ hotel room might actually be a little robot intelligence-gatherer. DARPA is already working on them, I’ve read. As good as Fiennes was as M, I kept expecting him to refer to someone as “Darling” as if he were still in _The Grand Budapest Hotel_. > [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I kept wondering where all of those people wearing black suits working at all of those monitors in that crater in the middle of the desert slept, ate, and shopped. And I guess they all died in the (rather strangely excessive) explosion. I would love to see a film from the point of view of one of these minions. Do they really think that these evil overlords are right in what they’re doing?.. _The Simpsons_ did it right with Hank Scorpio. The best evil supervillains are actually surprisingly thoughtful, supportive, well-paying bosses! > [@Kiros](#): > > …it’s the first Bond theme song of my lifetime where I had no idea who the artist was, and that makes me feel old. Though the song itself did grow on me a little by the end of the credits. Still a rough transition from Adele, though. I really liked “Writing’s On The Wall,” and had heard of Sam Smith before. I think the song’s right up there with Chris Cornell’s “You Know My Name” from _Casino Royale_, Shirley Bassey’s “Goldfinger” and Adele’s “Skyfall.” For those who want to hear it again: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jzDnsjYv9A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jzDnsjYv9A). > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > … [C] chastises Bond for being an antique, an assassin in a world that doesn’t need them? I think that’s an unfair description of what double-ohs do. They’re more like troubleshooters, fixers, clean up men. When something is wrong, 00s make it right again… Quite. As M (Judi Dench) once said, “There are times when this country will need a blunt instrument.” > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Talking of which, why doesn’t he kill Blofeld at the end? That’s what a double-oh does. I actually appreciated M’s speech about a license to kill also being a license _not_ to kill. Bond showed that he’s not just an assassin, a mindless tool. He exercised restraint, showed mercy and walked away, letting M arrest Blofeld. (As it happens, I couldn’t find any reference to a British “Special Measures Act 2001” on Wiki, though; this is probably what he meant: [Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-terrorism,_Crime_and_Security_Act_2001)). > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > …Anyway, so blonde woman says “Goodbye, James,” and walks away just as Bond and M and Moneypenny and Q get into their cars to drive to the whatever. Along the way, Bond and M get T-boned and Bond gets grabbed, dragged to the whatever, which has been elaborately rigged with explosives and photographs and fastidiously clean bulletproof glass partitions, and blonde woman is already there and tied up… > > How did she get there ahead of Bond?.. Great question. Didn’t occur to me at the time. > [@snowthx](#): > > Yeah, I was left wanting at the end of that scene. Ok, he wins and is calmly flying the copter - I was expecting him to land on the roof of the hotel where he, minutes prior, left the Mexican babe he was about to, uh, do, and resume that scene. He did say to her “I’ll be right back”… But no, he is just flying the copter to, somewhere. I was hoping for a post-credits scene, a la _Airplane!_, in which we see the woman boredly still sitting on the bed in Mexico City. A pile of Room Service trays is nearby. She mutters under her breath (in Spanish with subtitles), “If James isn’t back in the next ten minutes, I _swear_ I will walk out of here…!” > [@Mince](#): > > Such typical, contrived crap. …I’m seriously almost done with Bond movies. It’s the “almost” that the studio counts on every few years. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/113 "2015-11-30T22:42:25Z")
Watched it and I like it. I prefer this to Skyfall, which was darker if that makes sense. There was little cliche except for the fighting but the fighting is an integral part of James Bond. I thought it was refreshing that Bond did not the kill the villain Oberhausen. No sex scene which was tiresome. I liked the Bond girl, the actress and the character. I am beginning to like Daniel Craig much more than Pierce Brosnan as Bond, Brosnan had sentimental value due to me being a kid during the 90’s. But Craig is better Bond and he movies are mostly better. Only one discrepancy I found in the movie’s storyline. And that that Bond grew up with Oberhausen in the Austrian/German alps, yet in Skyfall, it was said he grew up in Scotland. I am confused, anyone else? Overall a good movie and it I was not tired of it, the pacing was good. I liked the scenery and everything. I recommend anyone to watch it. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/114 "2015-12-01T00:02:42Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > And that that Bond grew up with Oberhausen in the Austrian/German alps, yet in Skyfall, it was said he grew up in Scotland. I am confused, anyone else? Bond lived his early years in Scotland. After his parents died, he was briefly fostered by Oberhausen, before being permanently placed in the custody of some Englishwoman whose name I forget. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/115 "2015-12-01T01:05:26Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Bond lived his early years in Scotland. After his parents died, he was briefly fostered by Oberhausen, before being permanently placed in the custody of some Englishwoman whose name I forget. Makes sense, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/116 "2015-12-02T16:36:53Z")
Forgot to mention, when Dr. Swann told Bond on the London street that she wouldn’t be going with him, I thought that was a setup for her being revealed as a mole for Blofeld all along. I guess I’m just a little too suspicious for my own good. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/117 "2015-12-03T00:34:41Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Forgot to mention, when Dr. Swann told Bond on the London street that she wouldn’t be going with him, I thought that was a setup for her being revealed as a mole for Blofeld all along. I guess I’m just a little too suspicious for my own good. I thought the same thing. BTW, anyone who enjoyed the lovely Lea Seydoux in _Spectre_ ought to check out the excellent French film [Blue Is the Warmest Color](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2278871/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_9), about a lesbian relationship. You’ll see, er, quite a bit more of her, shall we say. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558/118 "2015-12-03T01:49:50Z")
Regarding the Cold Blooded Torture being intended to remove Bond’s ability to recognize faces, I figured after their explosive escape he’d end up eventually revealing that he had in fact lost the ability to recognize her face, but that it didn’t matter because she was the only blonde woman around during their getaway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectre-bond-film/736558.md?page=5)