# spectrum, I don't get it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 26, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280 "2004-06-26T04:31:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/221 "2004-06-30T17:02:23Z")
Actually, I imagine that he’ll use this opening we’ve created, and his next post will be about cats. Probably a lie about cats. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/222 "2004-06-30T17:10:05Z")
“See, **spectrum**? All you really need to reform you is a little pussy.” ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/223 "2004-06-30T17:13:14Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Probably a lie about cats. Or a dodge. “In some places it may be legal to shoot cats. I don’t know, but I think it’s legal in Belgium.” ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/224 "2004-06-30T17:37:35Z")
> [@bodswood](#): > > Matt, I believe a large number of pediatricians dissent from the position promulgated in that document. There are indeed a number of studies on either side, none of them conclusive, many of them with methodological problems. As Chuchill once said, “I don’t trust any statistics that I haven’t falsified myself”. > > At base, my position is that a homosexual relationship runs risks of depriving a child of the emotionally stable environment that he or she requires to such an extent that I do not support them. Guys, **bodswood** ’s _not_ going to answer the question. To him, it’s enough to say that he feels a certain way. In his mind, how he feels triumphs over everyone else’s feelings, all the conclusions of scientists, indeed any other belief or fact. It’s enough for him to feel a certain way - don’t expect any better. You can argue with this idiot, or the cat, or a brick wall until you’re blue in the face. It won’t change anything. He’s the purest example of intellectual laziness I’ve ever seen. He crows about being “open” but in the face of a mountain of evidence, won’t question his beliefs. If he got it into his head that there was no more water, you could throw him into a lake, and every time he surfaced he would gurgle, “It’s just my feelings. I feel that there isn’t any water.” Perhaps if we don’t engage him, he’ll scurry away. If not, our blood pressure will be lower. At any rate, he gives us all an example of the lazy, empty-headed dogma that underlies the politics of the religious right. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/225 "2004-06-30T17:39:52Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Perhaps if we don’t engage him, he’ll scurry away. He already has. He’s posted elsewhere, but not in this thread. He’s a true coward. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/226 "2004-06-30T18:34:53Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > He already has. He’s posted elsewhere, but not in this thread. He’s a true coward. He scuttles away under a different rock like a centipede when the sun hits it. I thought he was bad in the evolution GD thread. Clearly it’s a pattern. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/227 "2004-06-30T18:37:21Z")
For discussion: Do we have any reason to believe he was any more inclined to accept Queer people after our methodical argumentation than he would have been if **spectrum** had simply nuked him as he is wont to do? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/228 "2004-06-30T18:39:55Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > I thought he was bad in the evolution GD thread. The sad thing is, I really had high hopes for him in that one. He really seemed, for a while, able to listen to reason and evaluate facts. He seemed able to change. That’ll teach me to have faith in humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/229 "2004-06-30T18:47:23Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > For discussion: Do we have any reason to believe he was any more inclined to accept Queer people after our methodical argumentation than he would have been if **spectrum** had simply nuked him as he is wont to do? None, I think. But that’s _him_. It may not be so with others. I’m split on the whole **spectrum** deal. I’ve had a couple of run-ins with him and I definitely think he would be well served by holding his temper back a little bit and, above all, learning to differentiate between important issues and unimportant ones. On the other hand, I certainly do understand why he’s so angry about this. This issue regards one of the worst, if not the worst, injustices of our time and place. I have serious trouble understanding how anyone even has the energy to care about who someone else falls in love with, let alone actively oppose loving relationships and their legal rights. Sometimes I want to put my hand through the computer screen and rip the throats of the cowardly, disgusting, pathetic little bigots spreading their evil poison, these malicious crawlers who spend time and energy to make the world worse than it has to be. **spectrum** ’s anger is justified, there’s no doubt about that. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/230 "2004-06-30T19:02:52Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Y’all are on your own with this one. I’m done. My head hurts from pointless circular arguments. And from the irony of this thread’s devolving into **spectrum** ’s getting pissed off at another poster over gay rights. I don’t think it’s that ironic- not that I’m the arbiter of irony. This kind of getting pissed I agreed with all along, though. At least in this case **spectrum** started calm, and at least he waited until he saw the whites of **bodswood’s** willful ignorance before letting loose. Good enough for me, anyway. There’s only so much good faith to go around. > [@matt\_mcl](#): > > For discussion: Do we have any reason to believe he was any more inclined to accept Queer people after our methodical argumentation than he would have been if spectrum had simply nuked him as he is wont to do? Nope. If **bodswood** wasn’t such an asshole, though, it could’ve turned out differently, because he had nowhere left to run other than right out of the thread. He could’ve either conceded the point or quit. He quit, but if he wasn’t an asshole, maybe he would have actually considered option 1. Now the question is, is there anybody out there who thinks gays can’t be “real” lovers/ spouses/ parents/ etc. but who _isn’t_ also an asshole? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/231 "2004-06-30T19:09:51Z")
> [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > Now the question is, is there anybody out there who thinks gays can’t be “real” lovers/ spouses/ parents/ etc. but who _isn’t_ also an asshole? My guess: no, for the same reason there aren’t any people who live in Paris but not in France. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/232 "2004-06-30T19:09:57Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > On the other hand, I certainly do understand why he’s so angry about this. This issue regards one of the worst, if not the worst, injustices of our time and place. My problem with this is twofold: 1. He doesn’t confine his rage to this issue, and has been extremely ugly to other folks on other issues. While I very much appreciate his apology to me, what I’m really hoping for is a change in behavior. I’m hoping he won’t freak out on people as much in the future. 2. He doesn’t give people the benefit of the doubt on this issue–as evidenced by his premature exasperation with **Polycarp** earlier in this thread. 3. He lacks complexity in his thinking about these issues. While respect for the rights of folks who are gay is of course a paramount issue, there are complicating factors (e.g., the rights of people to engage in harmful pseudoscientific crap therapy if that’s what they want to do). And while the treatment of folks who are gay in our society freakin sucks, it pales in comparison to the treatment of folks who were Jewish in 1940 Germany, or treatment of folks who were black in 1880s Alabama. Be angry. But temper that anger with reason. Many people do it on many issues; I believe it’s vital to being a good advocate for an issue. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/233 "2004-06-30T19:12:09Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > My problem with this is twofold: …and my problem with the above statement is also twofold: 1. I apparently can’t count. > [@matt](#): > > My guess: no, for the same reason there aren’t any people who live in Paris but not in France. 😃 Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/234 "2004-06-30T19:19:30Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > My problem with this is twofold: > > 1. He doesn’t confine his rage to this issue, and has been extremely ugly to other folks on other issues. While I very much appreciate his apology to me, what I’m really hoping for is a change in behavior. I’m hoping he won’t freak out on people as much in the future. > 2. He doesn’t give people the benefit of the doubt on this issue–as evidenced by his premature exasperation with **Polycarp** earlier in this thread. Agreed and agreed. > [@](#): > > 1. He lacks complexity in his thinking about these issues. While respect for the rights of folks who are gay is of course a paramount issue, there are complicating factors (e.g., the rights of people to engage in harmful pseudoscientific crap therapy if that’s what they want to do). And while the treatment of folks who are gay in our society freakin sucks, it pales in comparison to the treatment of folks who were Jewish in 1940 Germany, or treatment of folks who were black in 1880s Alabama. This I cannot understand. So Jews in 1940 Germany were treated even worse. Is that a reason to be less angry? Should we expect less because someone else had even less than that? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/235 "2004-06-30T19:21:12Z")
> [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > Now the question is, is there anybody out there who thinks gays can’t be “real” lovers/ spouses/ parents/ etc. but who _isn’t_ also an asshole? I’m sure there are, actually. Hanlon’s Razor clearly states “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity”. In this case, it needn’t even be stupidity. Ignorance will do quite well. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/236 "2004-06-30T19:26:34Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > This I cannot understand. So Jews in 1940 Germany were treated even worse. Is that a reason to be less angry? Should we expect less because someone else had even less than that? No, I agree with you here. My problem is that **spectrum** himself has claimed that those who advocate “reparative therapy” are on the same level with the KKK and “[insert Godwin reference here]” if I remember his phrasing correctly. These hyperbolic claims tarnish his credibility and insult the victims of mass lynchings and gas chambers. It is unnecessary to use such hyperbole: you can still make a very strong case against “reparative therapy” and other such fuckedupedness without Godwinizing yourself. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/237 "2004-06-30T19:46:28Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > I’m sure there are, actually. Hanlon’s Razor clearly states “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity”. In this case, it needn’t even be stupidity. Ignorance will do quite well. Hm. I would argue that someone who is so ignorant as to believe such things is, though maybe not inherently assholistic, at least living in a state of assholism. (Maybe I just lack perspective, but it seems to me that most of that stuff should trip a compassionate person’s bullshit meter, even if they’re missing the specifics.) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/238 "2004-06-30T20:05:16Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Hm. I would argue that someone who is so ignorant as to believe such things is, though maybe not inherently assholistic, at least living in a state of assholism. > > (Maybe I just lack perspective, but it seems to me that most of that stuff should trip a compassionate person’s bullshit meter, even if they’re missing the specifics.) Eh, I’d say it depends. Say you’ve got a young teenager, raised in a very sheltered environment, who never really encountered a different point of view. (And yes, there people like that) Sometimes, you have to account for things like that. Those are the types of people one should strive to influence. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/239 "2004-06-30T20:11:01Z")
True. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/240 "2004-06-30T20:29:12Z")
Exactly. Someone who sincerely believed that homosexuality was somehow harmful for society, children or whatever, and (and this is important) _was capable of changing views when presented with opposing evidence_ wouldn’t qualify as an asshole, in my opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280.md?page=13)