# spectrum, I don't get it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 26, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280 "2004-06-26T04:31:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/261 "2004-07-02T09:45:51Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > > [@Priceguy](#): > > > > I really hope your daughter rebels, finds a girlfriend, and gets away from you as soon as possible. > > I really, _really_ hate to sound sanctimonious here, but in my own opinion, that’s not appropriate. Not because I think homosexuality is so bad I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. But because it’s not an act of rebellion or vengeance or poetic justice or anything; it’s just something that happens. I know. Those three things (rebelling, finding a girlfriend, and getting away from **bodswood** ) were intended to be separate entities, not parts of a whole. I realize that my writing inadequately conveys this. So: I hope his daughter rebels, rejecting **bodswood** ’s worldview. I also hope his daughter finds a girlfriend. Finally, I hope she gets away from him as soon as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/262 "2004-07-02T09:48:39Z")
> [@bodswood](#): > > Personally, I believe that it’s a choice And all the evidence the real world provides doesn’t sway you from this position? Is there anything that would? 'Cause, you know… you’re just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/263 "2004-07-02T10:08:31Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > I also hope his daughter finds a girlfriend. Why? Why a girlfriend? Why do you hope that she have a specific sexual preference? She is who she is, and she is going to be who she is. Hoping that she have a specific sexual preference is peculiar. It’s almost like hoping that she were a boy, or hoping that she had dark hair, or light hair, something like that, just to spite her father. You are wishing that she be something that is beyond her control; not her choice, and it’s _her_ life we’re talking about, not **bodsworth** ’s. And you hope this, just, apparently, because it will piss off her father, not because you have any feelings about her. Once again, that’s peculiar. I suppose I should hope that she get a boyfriend, just to spite you and deny you your wish (that his daughter get a girlfriend). It makes just about as much sense. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/264 "2004-07-02T10:24:25Z")
No, not to piss off her father, but to force him to confront reality. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/265 "2004-07-02T10:38:59Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > No, not to piss off her father, but to force him to confront reality. “Confront reality”? Why? Why does _she_ need to have a girlfriend in order for _him_ to confront reality? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. I can understand you wishing that she rebel against him, because you believe that he’s got some screwed up ideas and it would _ **benefit her** to get away from him_. (In your viewpoint.) But why does _she_ have to be some “lesson” for him, to force him to “confront reality”? Why can’t you just hope that she’ll just be whatever she’s gonna be, and have a boyfriend, or girlfriend, or both, just because that’s what’s _best for her?_ By your logic, I should hope that she has a boyfriend, so that it’ll force him to . . . oh, I dunno, but I’ll think of something. Or, I could hope that she’ll, oh, major in math or science or art, to force him to confront his feelings about those subjects. Or maybe I should wish that she move to California, or to Argentina, to force him to confront his feelings about those areas. Sounds kind of stupid, doesn’t it? Well, it does to me, anyway . . . ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/266 "2004-07-02T10:51:58Z")
All I’m saying is that it’s very easy for **bodswood** to sit and be a lying hypocrit when the issue doesn’t hit close to him. If his daughter does indeed turn out to be a lesbian, it will, and he’ll be forced to deal with it. With a bit of luck, he’ll come around. That’s why I’m hoping for that to happen. Well, that, and a couple of other reasons that are best dealt with in another thread. You’re acting as if I want to sneak into **bodswood** ’s house at night and perform brain surgery on his daughter to turn her into a lesbian. Do you really believe that my “hoping” for something affects the outcome one tiny bit? Of course I want what’s best for her, she’s done nothing to me. If she can get what’s best for her while at the same time contributing to bringing her father into the real world, that’s great. Am I not allowed to hope for that? I’m not particularly hoping for her to get a boyfriend, or major in maths or science, or move to California or Argentina, although she should of course do those things if they’re what she wants. If **bodswood** had displayed the same intolerance and wilful ignorance about California as he has about homosexuality, I might very well hope for her to move to California. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/267 "2004-07-02T11:00:44Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Well, that, and a couple of other reasons that are best dealt with in another thread. I think **Priceguy’s** been watching too much TV. Teenage dabbling in “lesbianity” is a hot plot twist, much overused these days. It’s done only to appeal to prurient interest. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/268 "2004-07-02T11:04:13Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > You’re acting as if I want to sneak into **bodswood** ’s house at night and perform brain surgery on his daughter to turn her into a lesbian. Do you really believe that my “hoping” for something affects the outcome one tiny bit? I was being nitpicky, I admit. 😉 But without adding the caveat of “if that’s what’s best for her,” it’s hard to say whether you give a damn about her feelings or not. I mean, I’d assume you do, but you really didn’t give any mention of it. > [@](#): > > If she can get what’s best for her while at the same time contributing to bringing her father into the real world, that’s great. Am I not allowed to hope for that? But you didn’t, specifically, hope for “what’s best for her.” You hoped that she’d have a girlfriend. If I hoped that she have a boyfriend, and _not_ a girlfriend, because I felt that it’s something that I would like to see happen, do you doubt that someone, somewhere, wouldn’t question me about it? “Why do you specifically hope that she have a boyfriend? What if she _really_ wants a girlfriend instead?” Of _course_ someone would say that to me. And that’s all I’m saying to you. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/269 "2004-07-02T11:10:23Z")
If anyone wants to believe that I’m hoping for **bodswood** ’s daughter to be straight but get a girlfriend for complex psychological reasons and live a life of denial and self-loathing… I suppose they can. I hope my point is clear. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/270 "2004-07-02T11:11:28Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I think **Priceguy’s** been watching too much TV. > > Teenage dabbling in “lesbianity” is a hot plot twist, much overused these days. It’s done only to appeal to prurient interest. Huh? What are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/271 "2004-07-02T11:15:16Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > If anyone wants to believe that I’m hoping for **bodswood** ’s daughter to be straight but get a girlfriend for complex psychological reasons and live a life of denial and self-loathing… I suppose they can. I hope my point is clear. No, I wasn’t saying that. I was just saying that wishing or preferring a specific sexual preference for somebody else, just to “teach their dad a lesson,” is likely to cause people to ask you questions. And rightfully so. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/272 "2004-07-02T12:07:39Z")
> [@bodswood](#): > > I will attempt to find what Paul has to say about homosexual adoption. Why don’t you try, maybe, thinking for yourself? And you still haven’t answered my direct question to you. Do you support removing MY son from my and my lesbian ex-wife’s custody? If homos are unfit to adopt, why are we fit to have a kid of our own making? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/273 "2004-07-02T12:59:50Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Huh? What are you talking about? Puh-leze. There’s tons of young girl-on-girl making-out on TV these days. And almost none of it is done to seriously explore gay issues. It’s done to turn on young male viewers. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/274 "2004-07-02T13:04:33Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Puh-leze. There’s tons of young girl-on-girl making-out on TV these days. I’ll have to take your word for it. > [@](#): > > And almost none of it is done to seriously explore gay issues. I’m sure. > [@](#): > > It’s done to turn on young male viewers. I’m sure. Are you going to be coming around to the bit where you explain what this has to do with what I wrote and how that gave you the impression that I watched too much TV any time soon? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/275 "2004-07-02T13:27:35Z")
**bodswood** , there are things emphatically wrong with your POV, which people have been pointing out in droves. (BTW, if you haven’t already encountered them, you might want to take a look at the alternative gay-friendly interpretations on those Scripture passages. **Diogenes** and I, among others, have done GD threads where they’re dissected and laid out with the _malakoi_ and the _arsenokaites_ clearly labeled. ;)) But in the midst of the Pitting you’re getting, I just want to say that, while I do disagree with you, I think your position is head and shoulders above some ostracize-the-unrepentant-sinners of the “Of course it’s a choice; God wouldn’t create someone who was predisposed to what He calls an abomination” frame of mind (using “mind” a bit loosely there ;)). You’re walking a tightrope which most people fall off on the judgmental side, and so far not doing too horrible. But let me give you my understanding of Matthew 7:1-2 – contrary to first impressions, and basing one’s view on other Bible passages, it’s not a strict literal injunction never to judge – but an “As you sow, so shall you reap” passage. We’re counseled not to judge others (negatively being implied), for the measure by which we judge is the measure by which we are judged. Therefore as we ourselves wish to be judged with forgiveness, mercy, and compassion, it becomes incumbent on us to judge others with forgiveness, mercy, and compassion. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/276 "2004-07-02T13:44:16Z")
And kudos to **Greathouse** and **Ellis Dee**. I appreciate it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/277 "2004-07-02T14:14:09Z")
> [@bodswood](#): > > S I think that’s his way of dealing with what he must consider is the true situation - I believe he ascribes the condition to the fall. Personally, I believe that it’s a choice, because I have difficulties with God allowing a person to be born with a certain disposition (even allowing for fallout from the fall) and then saying no sleeping with men. Wow. It takes a certain kind of fanatic to disregard all scientific evidence and go with a stupid, uninformed personal opinion just because one can’t imagine a God larger than a bread box. > [@](#): > > But his stuff on the Bible verses re homosexuality is good. I think we can all write off anything on this topic as being valuable the moment you ascribe anything positive to it. You’re like those Arabs who think The Protocols of Zion is a wonderful book on Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/278 "2004-07-02T14:16:34Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > No, not to piss off her father, but to force him to confront reality. As someone whose parents called him a “disgustin pervert” who will “die of AIDS,” and who forced me into going to psychotherapy after I came out (in which a family friend and psychiatrist told me that my parents were basically being assholes and that there was really nothing wrong with me other than a mild depression brought on by having assholes for parents), I think you’re giving humanity too much credit. If Bods were to find out his daughter were gay, he’d do what any good Christian of his stripe would do… disown and hate her. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/279 "2004-07-02T18:10:32Z")
I really don’t care what **Bodswood** , or anyone else, thinks of me or the relationship I have with my partner. If he chooses to believe in an obsolete, subjective code of ethics, that’s his problem, not mine. But when people start expecting me to abide by their own religious beliefs, they’ve crossed the line. I don’t hear Orthodox Jews condemning other people’s eating of pork, and I don’t hear Amish people condemning other people’s driving of cars. So why do fundamentalist Christians (and, I might add, Muslims) demand that the whole world lives by their particular creed? I haven’t got a shred of respect for people like this. And they’d better think twice, before attempting to dictate my behavior, not to mention my thoughts and feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/280 "2004-07-02T19:32:00Z")
**Priceguy** , I’m going to echo **spectrum** ’s feelings on this-I hope, for her sake, that she does NOT turn out to be gay, with her father’s attitudes. Even if he does NOT disown her, even if he changes when he finds out-if she heard all that growing up, that’s liable to do some damage to her, if she DOES find out that she’s gay. It will lead her to believe her father will not accept her, and it will be pretty damn destructive to the poor girl. **spectrum** -you don’t know that for certain. I’m not saying he’ll do a 180 and change his views completely, but that doesn’t mean he’ll kick her out and hate her. We don’t know WHAT he’ll do. He might change. I think **bodswood** here has shown himself to be less of a hating type, and more of an ignorant and obtuse type. We have proof here that people HAVE changed their views. Let me have that much faith in humanity that people can change. (Now, if you were talking say, **His4ever** , I’d be right there with you) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280.md?page=15)