# spectrum, I don't get it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 26, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280 "2004-06-26T04:31:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/161 "2004-06-30T05:02:31Z")
> [@bodswood](#): > > Anyway, it’s me you’re talking to not the Popes who ordered the Crusades, not some pastor who’s shafting the verger’s wife while preaching against adultery. No, he’s talking to you, the person who acknowledges that you oppose allowing homosexuals to adopt children, while advising against “extreme action,” policing people’s morals, and infringing on people’s rights. Do you simply not realize that by opposing the right for same-sex couples to adopt children, you are infringing on my rights? Do you have any evidence whatsoever that same-sex couples are any less capable of raising children in their best interest than heterosexual couples are? ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/162 "2004-06-30T05:03:48Z")
> [@bodswood](#): > > noted, I see this as more of a human rights issue Well, will you please stop SAYING that and FUCKING EXPLAIN IT??? What about being raised by loving gay parents who are just as qualified to raise a kid as any straights is a violation of anyone’s human rights? ---
**Author:** ![bodswood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@bodswood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bodswood)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/163 "2004-06-30T05:09:30Z")
I realise sometimes that being stuck out in an outpost like Hong Kong, it’s easy for me to lose touch with developments in other parts of the world. In which countries (or states in the US) has adoption of children by same sex couples been okayed by the government? I’d like to look into the situation of those particular places. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/164 "2004-06-30T05:12:33Z")
Jesus, here you go again, dodging the question. In some states its legal, in some states evil, monstrous, backwards Christian bigots have kept it illegal. There is no evidence that children raised by gay parents are any less happy, less well-developed, less academically capable, less moral or less anything with the possible exception of intolerant than children of straight parents. So what fucking human rights violation are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/165 "2004-06-30T05:17:51Z")
Seriously, **bodswood** , that’s a terribly insulting thing to say, especially if you refuse to explain it. How is being adopted by gay parents is a violation of one’s human rights? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/166 "2004-06-30T05:19:18Z")
Crap. Delete second “is.” ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/167 "2004-06-30T05:25:56Z")
> [@bodswood](#): > > “I believe that I see no way to reconcile Christianity with condemnation of love.” > > Lilairen, could you expand a bit? I don’t understand what you are saying. Love God (with all the heart, the soul, and the mind); love your neighbour. Upon these hang the laws and the prophets. The central commandments of Christianity are expressed in terms of love and loving behaviour. (And where love was in conflict with law, Jesus was not known for going with legalisms.) Declaring people to be unworthy on the basis of their love strikes me as being incompatible with an ethic that is expressed in terms of love as centrally important. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/168 "2004-06-30T05:26:17Z")
> [@bodswood](#): > > I have already addressed the issue of a homosexual couple adopting children. I oppose this as I believe that it is in not in the best interests of the child for him or her to be brought up in this way. To put it another way, it is not in line with their basic human rights. Oh yeah? WHY? How would it harm the child? And yeah, it’s a human rights issue, only not the way you seem to think it is. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/169 "2004-06-30T05:56:49Z")
> [@bodswood](#): > > In which countries (or states in the US) has adoption of children by same sex couples been okayed by the government? I’d like to look into the situation of those particular places. Several Canadian provinces permit same-sex couples to adopt. Here’s something else you might be interested in: [American Academy of Pediatrics Supports Adoption by Same Sex Parents](http://www.bcadoption.com/articles/ethics/appgayles.htm) ---
**Author:** ![bodswood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@bodswood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bodswood)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/170 "2004-06-30T06:25:15Z")
Matt, I believe a large number of pediatricians dissent from the position promulgated in that document. There are indeed a number of studies on either side, none of them conclusive, many of them with methodological problems. As Chuchill once said, “I don’t trust any statistics that I haven’t falsified myself”. At base, my position is that a homosexual relationship runs risks of depriving a child of the emotionally stable environment that he or she requires to such an extent that I do not support them. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/171 "2004-06-30T06:26:53Z")
How is a loving gay couple any less capable of providing emotional stability to a child than a loving heterosexual couple? ---
**Author:** ![bodswood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@bodswood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bodswood)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/172 "2004-06-30T06:27:42Z")
Lilairen, I believe love is best understood as choosing the best for the other person. On these grounds I oppose homosexual adoption. ---
**Author:** ![bodswood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@bodswood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bodswood)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/173 "2004-06-30T06:29:26Z")
Spectrum, my response to Lilairen would serve as my response to your question. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/174 "2004-06-30T06:37:18Z")
That is not a fucking answer, it’s a platitude. Answer the question: what could you and some woman provide a child that I and my partner could not? What parenting skills do gay couples lack? You are accusing an entire swath of humanity of being unfit parents. You have to support your position with more than platitudes and your normal gleeful ignorance. So support your fucking position. ---
**Author:** ![bodswood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@bodswood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bodswood)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/175 "2004-06-30T06:45:58Z")
Spectrum, there’s a whole literature on this. You’re probably familiar with it, if you read stuff that opposes your stance as well as stuff that supports it. I’m not going to be drawn to detail specifics because I can’t see it would be constructive, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/176 "2004-06-30T06:58:46Z")
Dodge dodge dodge. Jesus Fucking Christ – support your attack on my character, on the character of every gay person in the entire world, or retract it. Answer the fucking questions: Why is a gay couple unsuited for parenthood? What is it that straight couple provides that a gay couple cannot? You cannot accuse me of such a dispicable thing as being unable to be a fit parent without supporting it. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/177 "2004-06-30T07:03:50Z")
Y’all are on your own with this one. I’m done. My head hurts from pointless circular arguments. And from the irony of this thread’s devolving into **spectrum** ’s getting pissed off at another poster over gay rights. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/178 "2004-06-30T07:16:59Z")
> [@bodswood](#): > > Lilairen, I believe love is best understood as choosing the best for the other person. On these grounds I oppose homosexual adoption. Well, we’ve had it here in Massachusetts for years. What matters is people’s qualifications to provide homes, as individuals or as couples, not who they form adult loving relationships with. (To address the non sequitur.) (Now, the point, which you missed.) The condemnation of homosexuality is a condemnation of people _on the basis of who they love_. In the choice between love and law, which do you pick? Jesus healed on the Sabbath. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/179 "2004-06-30T07:17:05Z")
So I shouldn’t get pissed off and respond when some shitbag Christian bigot calls all gays everywhere unfit parents? And then isn’t even man enough to defend his accusation. He’s just another pathetic fundamentalist Christian coward. I think they come in six packs now, there are so damn many of them. If he had a lick of decency, a shred of a soul, he’d stand up for his anti-gay hate and explain his belief. But he isn’t even enough of a man to do that. ---
**Author:** ![bodswood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@bodswood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bodswood)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280/180 "2004-06-30T07:26:54Z")
“I think [fundies] come in six packs now, there are so damn many of them.” Not on this board, it seems. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spectrum-i-dont-get-it/252280.md?page=10)