Still, it’s important to remember that Itan has two enemy factions in play in the Middle East: Israel and the US, and Saudia Arabia and other Arabian Peninsula states.
Trump readily takes Russian aid. But he’s too stupid to be a Russian agent.
But I feel there’s a Russian agent in Trump’s senior circle. Somebody who’s getting money from Russia and who receives orders from Russia, which he then passes on to Trump as “suggestions”. (Kushner would be my first guess.) So Trump is working for Russia without being aware of it.
So my speculation is that Putin decided getting the United States caught up in a Middle Eastern war would benefit Russia, so he gave the orders to his mole.
The mole probably framed it as “All the great presidents led the country in wartime. You should declare war on Iran. You’re a brilliant leader, so you’ll win a quick war. And all of your enemies will be afraid of you with all the popularity you have.”
“Iran has been America’s enemy for nearly 50 years, and no president has had the nerve to take them out. Now is the time to strike. You’ll make history.”
I can see it. But I think the suggestions are coming from Netanyahu. Trump really bristled when it was suggested that Israel talked him into the war.
“If anything, I forced them into the decision.”
That’s his tell. Projecting his behavior onto otbers.
And just how is tanking the economy and raising oil prices while opening the US to vengeance counter attacks supposed to help Republicans in the election? I’m not following your line of thinking.
This may be true, but if so, it’s absolutely foolish. This war has an exceptionally low support among polled Americans, so if his base is energized it’s at the expense of everyone else. And the Republicans can’t win if they only get votes from their diehard base.
I think we know most of the reasons. He has wanted to do it for decades, as I posted before, to somehow “get” their oil, just as he also talked of getting Iraq’s oil. Also, Netayahu pushed. And:
How Lindsey Graham got Trump to yes on Iran
Trump himself has given a whole bunch of reasons, most of which may be true in some aspect.
What we should be unsure of is which of the reasons predominated. That’s more the subject of history than daily journalism.
I’m sure the Republicans would say that those things aren’t going to happen. I imagine the logic is that war results in a surge of patriotism, and the Republicans are the party that really relishes its performative displays of jingoism.
This. Just look at how Trump is handling the outcome of the Republican senate primary in Texas. He knows the Republicans are set to lose big, and he’s flailing around for anything and everything to try to change that.
It’s not about Iran anymore than an abusive spouse who comes home drunk and angry and proceeds to kick the dog is about the dog (even if the dog is a yappy annoying type of dog). Trump and the Republicans are in some deep shit for the midterms, they don’t know how to handle it, so they’re lashing out at the nearest targets that can’t hit back (or at least not hit back very hard).
ETA. Obviously it’s a huge deal to the dog / Iran, but to the abusive person it’s just a target of convenience.
Especially when the performance is based on bombing a nation of brown people of a different religion. Especially one that humiliated the US nearly 50 years ago.
A lot of right-wing chickenhawks of my acquaintance are mad we didn’t nuke Vietnam on our way out. It grinds their jaws to let anyone defeat us and continue to live.
Some of the base is really big on payback.
IMO it’s a creeping realization of his own mortality. This is his twisted way of leaving a legacy, he wants to be remembered as a great war leader.
There’s probably a fascist lackey involved somewhere too (specifically one whose interests are served by spreading fascism abroad not just in the US) who has the POTUS’ ear right now. But IMO whoever they are they just building on Trump’s own dread about his mortality.
And yet I’m seeing a number of reports in the media that at least a portion of Trump’s base is outraged at him for getting us into a war with Iran, after running on a promise of avoiding foreign wars. How that anger will translate to part of the base staying home rather than voting, I have no clue, butone source I saw said his approval rating on the war was 27 percent – yes, the crazification factor level.
If that was his reason, or one of them, it seems to have backfired.
The specific timing of the Iran attack was clearly that.
But there has been a radical shift in the second Trump administration towards military aggression that was not there in the first. That stands out as his other hideous fascist policies are all just extensions of things in the first term, taken to the extreme.
What nags me is that now Iran is actually free to carry out attacks on our homeland without them being “terrorist” attacks. Its not an act of terrorism when it’s in retaliation for an act war and the assassination of the head of their government. Isn’t what we did the equivalent to the Pearl Harbor attack?
In fact since we were in negotiations with Iran and did not declare war before the assassination, then Iran would appear to have the right to freely attack us. Many nations would consider what we did a war crime.
Surely they’re not salty about all that hostage business that happened when I was in first grade?
I mean I remember it, but what I was getting at with my commentary about wondering why other administrations didn’t slap Iran around was more in the vein of their sponsorship and support of terrorism and general destabilizing stuff in the Middle East for decades, and particularly during our occupation of Iraq. It seemed to me they did stuff just to be contrary that was getting people killed, and maybe a bit of judiciously applied military force might make them think twice in the future.
But this is definitely something else. It’s baffling; there’s usually a sort of progression and calculus to these things- a sort of Clausewitzian “politics through other means” approach, but this is more of a personal bullying of another nation because he can, and because he thinks it makes him and the US look tough and not to be fucked with.
In reality it makes us look capricious and scary, and not someone you want to have anything to do with if you can help it.
It worked for Bush. War presidents get a lot of slack. Sure, likely not this war or this President, but it is a common political thing.
Looks like it. Plus of course his ego and overall incompetence.
Yeah, just because that is A obvious reason, it doesnt mean it is working. Seems like it is not. But he had to try to do something.
Let us hope.
Totally different. The Empire of Japan didn’t decapitate the Executive Branch of the United States government by bombing the White House out of existence during a peacetime Cabinet meeting.
Let’s not besmirch Japan with that comparison.
I picked one of the three polls at random to check, and 82 percent of Republicans approve:
My guess is that a lot of the Republicans who disapprove are so far right that they are locked in as Trump supporters. They also disapprove of Trump not having arrested folks like Hillary Clinton. But they also don’t expect Trump is be, from their POV, perfect. At least, they will be thinking, there was no ground war.
The bombing will be long over by election day, and they will be onto something else.
Another guess is that most of the Republicans who now say they approve would have been against it a month ago. They approve because Trump ordered it.
I have seen slightly lower numbers, but remember fellow SDMBers- GOP will vote GOP, Dem will vote Dem, but the about 1/3 of "independent " voters decide the election. 44% disapprove, 19% approved-
Barely Moderating:
Just as a reminder, we’re starting to move past the reasons why and into predicted consequences. So far it’s still within the fuzzy lines about speculation about why Trump made the choices, but speculating about what will happen is for the sister thread.
I know it’s a bit frustrating, but we’re really trying to keep the conversations to appropriate threads and not, ahem, cross the streams.
Barely moderating as I said, because I don’t think we’ve crossed the line, so just a gentle reminder.
That, and daring to throw off the dictator we forced on them. We hate them for the same reason we hate Cuba; they both dared defy us and got away without being properly punished for defying their rightful masters with a war of conquest, an occupation and plenty of mass killing. That, and being Muslim and Communist, respectively; they dare defy the True Religion.
That said, I doubt any of that is Trump’s motive; he’s a narcissist. The people around him yes, Trump personally no. Trump cares about profit, ego and personal vengeance.