# Speechifying before battle in olden times **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 17, 2007, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964 "2007-08-17T17:37:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/1 "2007-08-17T17:37:31Z")
In many movies we see our Hero giving a speech to the troops to stir support, and ready them for battle. However it turns out that he’s talking to tens of thousands of troops, and with no speaker system in sight. How did the lowly troops hear or get inspired by the greatness of the general in command? I saw a trailer for \*Elizabeth \*(2?) and she’s doing it there. I remember they did it in _Braveheart_ (possibly more than once) Caesar in HBO’s \*Rome \*gave a few speeches that couldn’t have been heard by so many. So two questions for the CS: 1. What other movies have someone giving a speech to too many people to hear and more importantly 2. Did this really happen? Was it retroactively written by the victors? Was it like a stump speech? Where he would give it a few hundred times leading up to battle? Did he give the speech to a hundred ‘officers’ and they would, in turn, retell it to their troops? Is this only a work of fiction, and never really happened? Some of these wouldn’t work, when the end of the speech is the Hero charging the Enemy, but otherwise they could work. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/2 "2007-08-17T20:36:49Z")
[QUOTE=FlightlessBird] 1. What other movies have someone giving a speech to too many people to hear [/QUOTE] Not a movie (initially), but: > [@](#): > > We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; > For he to-day that sheds his blood with me > Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile, > This day shall gentle his condition: > And gentlemen in England now a-bed > Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, > And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks > That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day. Shakepeare, _Henry V_. I don’t know how many of the 6000+ English troops would have heard him. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/3 "2007-08-17T20:55:39Z")
Elizabeth really did give a speech to rally the troops before the arrival of the Spanish Armada. [There are different versions of what she said](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_to_the_Troops_at_Tilbury), which, I suppose leaves open the possibility that the substance of her words was lost and that improved versions were composed for history’s sake. But there doesn’t seem to be any dispute that she gave a speech. Both versions include some reference to the fact that she was a woman in what was traditionally a man’s role, which suggests that this was a central theme in whatever she actually said. The more popular version: > [@](#): > > My loving people, > > We have been persuaded by some that are careful of our safety, to take heed how we commit our selves to armed multitudes, for fear of treachery; but I assure you I do not desire to live to distrust my faithful and loving people. Let tyrants fear. I have always so behaved myself that, under God, I have placed my chiefest strength and safeguard in the loyal hearts and good-will of my subjects; and therefore I am come amongst you, as you see, at this time, not for my recreation and disport, but being resolved, in the midst and heat of the battle, to live and die amongst you all; to lay down for my God, and for my kingdom, and my people, my honour and my blood, even in the dust. > > I know I have the body but of a weak and feeble woman; but I have the heart and stomach of a king, and of a king of England too, and think foul scorn that Parma or Spain, or any prince of Europe, should dare to invade the borders of my realm; to which rather than any dishonour shall grow by me, I myself will take up arms, I myself will be your general, judge, and rewarder of every one of your virtues in the field. > > I know already, for your forwardness you have deserved rewards and crowns; and We do assure you in the word of a prince, they shall be duly paid you. In the mean time, my lieutenant general [Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester] shall be in my stead, than whom never prince commanded a more noble or worthy subject; not doubting but by your obedience to my general, by your concord in the camp, and your valour in the field, we shall shortly have a famous victory over those enemies of my God, of my kingdom, and of my people. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/4 "2007-08-17T21:13:11Z")
In less olden times, General Eisenhower published an [Order of the Day](http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=75) to encourage the troops about to undertake the Normandy Invasion: Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force! You are about to embark upon the Great Crusade, toward which we have striven these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you. The hope and prayers of liberty-loving people everywhere march with you. In company with our brave Allies and brothers-in-arms on other Fronts, you will bring about the destruction of the German war machine, the elimination of Nazi tyranny over the oppressed peoples of Europe, and security for ourselves in a free world. Your task will not be an easy one. Your enemy is will trained, well equipped and battle-hardened. He will fight savagely. But this is the year 1944! Much has happened since the Nazi triumphs of 1940-41. The United Nations have inflicted upon the Germans great defeats, in open battle, man-to-man. Our air offensive has seriously reduced their strength in the air and their capacity to wage war on the ground. Our Home Fronts have given us an overwhelming superiority in weapons and munitions of war, and placed at our disposal great reserves of trained fighting men. The tide has turned! The free men of the world are marching together to Victory! I have full confidence in your courage, devotion to duty and skill in battle. We will accept nothing less than full Victory! Good luck! And let us beseech the blessing of Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/5 "2007-08-17T21:19:37Z")
Also less olden but: Patton “Men, all this stuff you’ve heard about America not wanting to fight, wanting to stay out of the war, is a lot of horse dung. Americans traditionally love to fight. All real Americans love the sting of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter, the fastest runner, big league ball players, the toughest boxers. Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time. I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That’s why Americans have never lost, and will never lose a war… because the very thought of losing is hateful to Americans.” Alexander the Great gave a speech in Alexander (not that anyone heard it). ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/6 "2007-08-17T21:30:21Z")
**LOTR: Return of the King** – Theoden gives a rousing speech to the Riders of Rohan, before they charge the forces besieging Minas Tirith. And he’s riding back and forth as he gives it (in the movie), so nobody gets to hear the whole thing. \*\*300 \*\*ends with the one-eyed guy giving a speech with 30,000 Greeks at his back, 12 of whom get to hear his stirring words. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/7 "2007-08-17T21:31:20Z")
Here’s another good real life example (scroll down): > **[Tim Collins (British Army officer)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Collins_(soldier))** > > Colonel Timothy Thomas Cyril Collins OBE (born 30 April 1960) is a retired Northern Irish military officer in the British Army. He is best known for his role in the Iraq War in 2003, and his eve-of-battle speech, a copy of which apparently hung in the White House's Oval Office\[citation needed\]. He is currently Chairman (and co-founder) of intelligence-based security services company Horus Global. > Collins was born and raised in Belfast, Northern Ireland, where he grew up during The Troubles. H... ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/8 "2007-08-17T21:39:07Z")
Hmph. Let’s try again: > **[Tim Collins (British Army officer)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Collins_(soldier))** > > Colonel Timothy Thomas Cyril Collins OBE (born 30 April 1960) is a retired Northern Irish military officer in the British Army. He is best known for his role in the Iraq War in 2003, and his eve-of-battle speech, a copy of which apparently hung in the White House's Oval Office\[citation needed\]. He is currently Chairman (and co-founder) of intelligence-based security services company Horus Global. > Collins was born and raised in Belfast, Northern Ireland, where he grew up during The Troubles. H... ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/9 "2007-08-17T22:19:31Z")
The vast majority of the time, speeches to the assembled troops are pure fiction. As noted, thousands of troops, plus all the other people who might be around on horseback, or pulling cannons, or providing supplies, or whatever, make any but the smallest armies spread over vast areas and are hard to keep perfectly quiet. (If they’re all hiding and quiet to spring a surprise, a speech wouldn’t be much help either.) If there are real exceptions, remember than orators in times before electronic assistance were renowned as much for their lungpower as their ability with words. There are many 19th century American politicians who had nicknames like “Old Leatherlungs” for their ability to be heard by crowds of thousands. Edward Everett, who spoke for two hours at Gettysburg before Lincoln, was known for such ability and most contemporary reports indicate that he had no trouble getting the entire crowd’s attention. At best, I’d say that a speech to stir the troops was possible but rare. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/10 "2007-08-17T22:23:42Z")
[QUOTE=jsc1953] **LOTR: Return of the King** – Theoden gives a rousing speech to the Riders of Rohan, before they charge the forces besieging Minas Tirith. And he’s riding back and forth as he gives it (in the movie), so nobody gets to hear the whole thing. [/QUOTE] You do realize that this is a work of fiction, right? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/11 "2007-08-17T22:33:38Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] You do realize that this is a work of fiction, right? [/QUOTE] Well, the OP did mention _Braveheart_, which is scarcely less fictional than LotR. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/12 "2007-08-17T22:46:25Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Well, the OP did mention _Braveheart_, which is scarcely less fictional than LotR. [/QUOTE] Yes, but it was based on a real event. The OP asked for movies where this happened and how it compared to the real life event. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/13 "2007-08-17T22:53:40Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] Yes, but it was based on a real event. The OP asked for movies where this happened and how it compared to the real life event. [/QUOTE] I withdraw my post. sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/14 "2007-08-17T22:54:17Z")
Wow lots of good responses. **Exapno Mapcase** ’s post really got to the heart of the matter of the 2nd question posted. I guess I was hoping for some cites of generals who did give stirring speeches to rally his troops, before the use of sound systems/printing press. I guess being able to shout is what it’s all about. Have we lost this ability or is it prevalent only in our sports coaches. (Who else shouts over long periods of time for a living?) ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/15 "2007-08-17T22:56:20Z")
[The Historical Reality of Ancient Battle Speeches](http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/bcj/14-04.html). ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/16 "2007-08-17T23:40:25Z")
I think long-winded speeches were exceptional. The rule was short but inspirational exhortations. Pickett to his troops before their ill-fated charge at Gettysburg: “Up, Men, and to your posts! Don’t forget today that you are from Old Virginia!” Daniel Morgan to his troops before the Revolutionary War battle of Cowpens: “Let me see which are most entitled to the credit of brave men, the boys of Carolina or those of Georgia!” and later, “My friends in arms, my dear boys, I request you to remember Saratoga, Monmouth, Paoli, and Brandywine, and this day play well _your_ parts for honor and liberty!” At the Battle of the Wilderness (Civil War): > [@](#): > > Lee called out to the veterans, “Who are you boys?” “Texas boys!” the men yelled back. Exhilirated that his best troops were now on the field of fire, General Lee stood up in his stirrups and exclaimed, “Hurrah for Texas! Texans always move them!” With a shout that could be heard for a mile, the line moved forward. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2007, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/17 "2007-08-18T00:01:19Z")
And of course, there’s always, “They couldn’t hit an elephant at this distance.” ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/18 "2007-08-18T00:22:11Z")
Before the battle of Trafalgar, Nelson used flag signals to communicate “England expects that every man will do his duty”. Not much of a speech, but then I imagine having to use flag signals lend themselves to brevity. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2007, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/19 "2007-08-18T00:32:07Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] Yes, but it was based on a real event. The OP asked for movies where this happened and how it compared to the real life event. [/QUOTE] Whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2007, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964/20 "2007-08-18T00:36:24Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] The vast majority of the time, speeches to the assembled troops are pure fiction. As noted, thousands of troops, plus all the other people who might be around on horseback, or pulling cannons, or providing supplies, or whatever, make any but the smallest armies spread over vast areas and are hard to keep perfectly quiet. (If they’re all hiding and quiet to spring a surprise, a speech wouldn’t be much help either.) [/QUOTE] There’s no need to rally any but the frontline troops. They’re the ones risking the most. The first in, and almost certain to die. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if rallying the troops was a widespread practice. Advantage was gained by the more fierce attacker. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speechifying-before-battle-in-olden-times/415964.md?page=2)