# Speeding - deterrence vs revenue **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 19, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118 "2015-02-19T19:28:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/41 "2015-02-22T05:11:40Z")
> [@bump](#): > > No, that’s not what he or I is saying. What we’re saying is that the cops should prioritize more dangerous crimes and violations over penny-ante, chicken-shit stuff like jaywalking and running red lights. So what, exactly, are you advocating here? If an officer observes someone going 30 in a 25, should he ignore it because there’s probably something worse going on in Albuquerque? Should he radio the precinct and ask if he’s needed anywhere else before he engages the driver? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/42 "2015-02-22T06:55:00Z")
There is one place near me where its the bottom of a steep hill and the cops like to hide their and get people speeding. Thing is to NOT speed one would have to be riding their brakes. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/43 "2015-02-22T07:32:14Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Thing is to NOT speed one would have to be riding their brakes. …Or you could downshift manually. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/44 "2015-02-22T11:50:32Z")
Houston had red light cameras for a while, then somebody sued them and got them turned off. I loved them. I live near the intersection of Westheimer and Beltway 8, which was notorious for people running red lights. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve nearly been hit. When the cameras were operating, the number of collisions at that intersection (and others) went down significantly. Now that the cameras are off, collisions are back up. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/45 "2015-02-22T13:28:21Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Motorcycles don’t always trip the sensors so the general rule is “after 3 cycles, make your turn when you safely can”. A flesh and blood cop can see that I’ve waited, waited for a safe break in traffic, and judge that. Or the flesh and blood cop could just write you a ticket, since apparently they are after easy, low-hanging fruit. How do people know about the “general rule”? Is it written somewhere? I drive for a living, and I do about 750 miles a week. I don’t get tickets, because I don’t speed and I don’t run red lights. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/46 "2015-02-22T15:56:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So what, exactly, are you advocating here? If an officer observes someone going 30 in a 25, should he ignore it because there’s probably something worse going on in Albuquerque? Should he radio the precinct and ask if he’s needed anywhere else before he engages the driver? Are you being deliberately obtuse here for a reason? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/47 "2015-02-22T16:43:40Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Are you being deliberately obtuse here for a reason? :rolleyes: I’m just asking how this “there’s more important stuff happening somewhere else so the cops should ignore my lawbreaking” thing is supposed to work in practice. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/48 "2015-02-22T18:57:00Z")
When there are degrees of “sin” involved, a conflict of interest between revenue collecting and safety, the impossibility of lighting up everybody who is technically breaking the law, so a discerning officer will get only the most reckless offenders, with the most open and shut cases? And that how roads and modern vehicles can probably handle higher speeds than what is in fact posted? And that municipalities have been [known to lower speed limits](http://business.time.com/2013/09/02/end-of-the-road-for-speed-traps/) for the sole reason of increasing the revenue flow? If the _de facto_ speed limit is higher than the _de jure_ one, I am going to be going at the higher one if for no other reason than because it is yes safer, sorry Inspector. You know, like how real life, in all of its abhorrent sloppiness, actually operates? Things everyone else in this thread have pointed out to you repeatedly, in vain, while you blithely ignore what they’ve said while focusing solely on the strict letter of the law? :smack: It ain’t all black and white, IOW. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/49 "2015-02-22T19:10:24Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Houston had red light cameras for a while, then somebody sued them and got them turned off. > > I loved them. I live near the intersection of Westheimer and Beltway 8, which was notorious for people running red lights. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve nearly been hit. When the cameras were operating, the number of collisions at that intersection (and others) went down significantly. Now that the cameras are off, collisions are back up. Studies have shown that Red Light cameras _increase_ accidents. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/50 "2015-02-22T20:17:50Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > And that how roads and modern vehicles can probably handle higher speeds than what is in fact posted? And that municipalities have been [known to lower speed limits](http://business.time.com/2013/09/02/end-of-the-road-for-speed-traps/) for the sole reason of increasing the revenue flow? A tactic which wouldn’t work if, you know, people obeyed the speed limit. > [@](#): > > If the _de facto_ speed limit is higher than the _de jure_ one, I am going to be going at the higher one if for no other reason than because it is yes safer, sorry Inspector. Yes, I’m sure the old “I know better than the city and the experts what the safe speed for this stretch of road is” argument will go over great with the judge. > [@](#): > > It ain’t all black and white, IOW. Sure it is. If you don’t speed, you won’t get ticketed for speeding. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/51 "2015-02-22T20:18:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Studies have shown that Red Light cameras _increase_ accidents. You know what else increases accidents? Running red lights. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/52 "2015-02-22T21:43:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m just asking how this “there’s more important stuff happening somewhere else so the cops should ignore my lawbreaking” thing is supposed to work in practice. I pay their damn salaries, that’s how it works. I guarantee you a majority of the population would rather cops focus on real crime, versus people doing 10 mph over the limit in good conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/53 "2015-02-22T21:47:39Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > I pay their damn salaries, that’s how it works. And so do I. > [@](#): > > I guarantee you a majority of the population would rather cops focus on real crime, versus people doing 10 mph over the limit in good conditions. Then a majority of the population should vote to repeal the speed limit and see how it works when everyone just drives the way they “know” is safest. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/54 "2015-02-22T21:54:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And so do I. > > Then a majority of the population should vote to repeal the speed limit and see how it works when everyone just drives the way they “know” is safest. Actually, that’s already been done in the Netherlands, with excellent results. Turns out, people drive a LOT more carefully without speed limits, stop signs, etc… I know that probably disturbs you. Would you like a link? ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/55 "2015-02-22T22:24:19Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Actually, that’s already been done in the Netherlands, with excellent results. Turns out, people drive a LOT more carefully without speed limits, stop signs, etc… I know that probably disturbs you. Would you like a link? I would. I think you’re talking about the Living Street, or Woonerf, system, where residential roads are built without curbs and there’s no definition between where cars and where people can go. There is very much a speed limit in these, in the Netherlands it’s 15km/h, and they will very much ticket you for 100euro if you break it. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/56 "2015-02-22T22:33:32Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > I would. > > I think you’re talking about the Living Street, or Woonerf, system, where residential roads are built without curbs and there’s no definition between where cars and where people can go. There is very much a speed limit in these, in the Netherlands it’s 15km/h, and they will very much ticket you for 100euro if you break it. There are actually towns in Germany, Drachten, and one in the UK that also are experimenting with this. I’m not sure if speed limits are active in those towns. Whether or not they are, the concept deserves research. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/57 "2015-02-22T22:37:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, I’m sure the old “I know better than the city and the experts what the safe speed for this stretch of road is” argument will go over great with the judge. Actually, it does, at least in CA. Each highway section is designed and rated for a certain safe speed. But some municipalities reduce the posted speed limit well belwo that, creating a “speed trap”. Not only can you get out of a ticket by showing that, but Nolo suggests doing so, and it worked for me. In fact, my trial for the speeding ticked consisted of this: Me: Present, your Honor PO: Present your Honor Judge: What is that stretch of Pacific coast Highway rated for, officer? PO: 50 MPH, your honor. Judge: and what is your cities posted limit there? PO: 35 MPH. Judge: And how fast was the defendant going? PO: I clocked him at 47MPH your honor. Judge: On a Sunday nite at 3AM, right? PO: Yes. Judge: _Case dismissed._ (bangs gavel) My only testimony was “Present, your honor”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/58 "2015-02-22T22:38:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You know what else increases accidents? Running red lights. But you see: 1. Most tickets for “running a red light” are just for a rolling stop on a right turn. and 1. Altho running red lights cause accidents, red light cameras \*increase accidents. \* ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/59 "2015-02-22T22:55:57Z")
Montana’s roads were safest without speed limits. > **[Montana: No Speed Limit Safety Paradox - National Motorists Association](https://ww2.motorists.org/press/montana-no-speed-limit-safety-paradox/)** > > By Chad Dornsife, 5/10/2001 National Motorists Association, Waunakee Wisconsin This is an obvious call to action. Something must be done. We need more laws, more money for enforcement and more citations written – Speed Kills! Not so fast says a... Also, there’s the Autobahn. **Smapti** , it looks like you’re getting your ass handed to you today, friend. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118/60 "2015-02-23T00:34:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > 1. Most tickets for “running a red light” are just for a rolling stop on a right turn. In other words, most tickets for running a red light are for running a red light. Why do you believe you’re special and the law doesn’t apply to you? > [@](#): > > Altho running red lights cause accidents, red light cameras increase accidents. If you can’t stop for a red light safely, then you should not be driving. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/speeding-deterrence-vs-revenue/713118.md?page=4)