# Spell My Name With An Eth: Why is 'Odin' pronounced like it is?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 20, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796 "2012-06-20T22:56:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/1 "2012-06-20T22:56:26Z")
I’ll just quote [from Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin) to establish this, but if you don’t already know what I’m talking about I doubt you’ll be able to help:
> [@](#):
>
> /ˈoʊdɨn/; from Old Norse Óðinn
So, through the magic of Unicode, we can see that the first consonant in the name in Old Norse is [the letter eth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth), even though in English it’s pronounced with /d/ in that position, which is the consonant in ‘dye’, for example.
Now, the interesting part is that Odin is apparently the counterpart of [Wōden](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%8Dden) and derived from the Proto-Germanic \*[Wōdanaz](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%8Ddanaz); the ‘d’ sometimes changes into a ‘t’ (which I can only imagine corresponds to a sound change) but never to a ‘th’ or a ‘dh’. So this kind of challenges my initial idea that it was pronounced with a voiced ‘th’ way back when, assuming the reconstructed names correspond to reconstructed pronunciations in a reasonable fashion.
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### Author:  [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/2 "2012-06-20T23:33:52Z")
While we wait for the experts to chime in – I tried finding the answer in “Old English and its Closest Relatives”. I see in the Old Norse chapter a lot of words containing that character which would sound like our letter “d”. Someone else will have to explain the history…
In the Old Saxon and Old English chapters it seems to be used for “th”.
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### Author:  [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/3 "2012-06-21T12:11:07Z")
May I raise a point?
Not just here on the SDMB, but also Wikipedia and several other places on the net, I often see pronunciation rendered in those ridiculous dictionary symbols. They’re all but useless; I haven’t opened a dictionary in probably two decades.
Can we render pronunciation in a more meaningful and simple way? Instead of “ˈoʊdɨn” how about “OH-din” or whatever?
Thanks.
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### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/4 "2012-06-21T13:03:13Z")
The ð is pronounced like the th in “then”. So Óðinn should be pronounced like “Oh-then”. There’s a different th sound, like in “thin”, which is Þ.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/5 "2012-06-21T13:03:43Z")
I agree completely with **HeyHomie**. In fact, one could argue that use of a specialized code in which just a handful of dopers is fluent can be seen as a violation of the SDMB rules on foreign language use.
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### Author:  [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/6 "2012-06-21T13:10:20Z")
> [@Derleth](#):
>
> Now, the interesting part is that Odin is apparently the counterpart of [Wōden](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%8Dden) and derived from the Proto-Germanic \*[Wōdanaz](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%8Ddanaz); the ‘d’ sometimes changes into a ‘t’ (which I can only imagine corresponds to a sound change) but never to a ‘th’ or a ‘dh’. So this kind of challenges my initial idea that it was pronounced with a voiced ‘th’ way back when, assuming the reconstructed names correspond to reconstructed pronunciations in a reasonable fashion.
And from which we derive the English “Wednesday”
> [@](#):
>
> Origin:
> before 950; Middle English Wednesdai, Old English \*Wēdnesdæg, mutated variant of **Wōdnesdæg Woden’s day** ; cognate with Dutch Woensdag, Danish onsdag; translation of Latin Mercuriī diēs day of Mercury
@Lemur - I don’t hear a difference between the “th” in “then” and “thin”. Do you have a different example?
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### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/7 "2012-06-21T13:17:05Z")
How about “thus” and “this”?
The problem with rendering pronunciations with standard letters, is that English letters don’t have unambigous values.
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### Author:  [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/8 "2012-06-21T13:22:58Z")
Because it looks sorta like a “d”, maybe? Similarly how nowadays we would pronounce “Ye” as “Yee” instead of “the” as in “ye olde [whatever]”, because of the similarity of the letters?
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/9 "2012-06-21T13:47:17Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#):
>
> May I raise a point?
>
> Not just here on the SDMB, but also Wikipedia and several other places on the net, I often see pronunciation rendered in those ridiculous dictionary symbols. They’re all but useless; I haven’t opened a dictionary in probably two decades.
>
> Can we render pronunciation in a more meaningful and simple way? Instead of “ˈoʊdɨn” how about “OH-din” or whatever?
>
> Thanks.
No.
Just the opposite. They’re not “ridiculous dictionary symbols.” They are, in fact, the only way to render pronunciation in a way that’s meaningful to an international audience. “OH-din” style attempts on this board only lead to endless circular confusion because two people with different accents pronounce them differently. Just learn the I.P.A. is easy and it will be useful any time you want to discuss pronunciation.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/10 "2012-06-21T13:50:48Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#):
>
> @Lemur - I don’t hear a difference between the “th” in “then” and “thin”. Do you have a different example?
The “th” in “then” is voiced. It is not voiced in “thin”. If you try to whisper “then”, it will not be voiced. Get it now?
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### Author:  [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/11 "2012-06-21T14:02:54Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#):
>
> @Lemur - I don’t hear a difference between the “th” in “then” and “thin”. Do you have a different example?
> [@Lemur866](#):
>
> How about “thus” and “this”?
Odd. “then” and “thin” are different to me, but “thus” and “this” are the same.
For lack of better terms, I’ve always differentiated the two main _th_ sounds as “hard” and “soft”.
HARD:
thin
think
thank
three
thaw
SOFT:
this
thus
then
they
there
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### Author:  [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/12 "2012-06-21T14:04:07Z")
Why is ‘Odin’ pronounced like it is? Because the Old Norse voiced th changed in pronounciation to a ‘d’.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/13 "2012-06-21T14:04:10Z")
[θ] (voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative) - thin, think, thrall, thatch, thistle, thorough, through, thing
[ð] (voiced dental non-sibilant fricative) - this, that, whether, weather, wither, thou, thy, thine, thee, scythe, thus, therefore, there
“with” can be either [wɪθ] or [wɪð]
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### Author:  [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/14 "2012-06-21T14:20:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> The “th” in “then” is voiced. It is not voiced in “thin”. If you try to whisper “then”, it will not be voiced. Get it now?
I find it helpful to think of the difference between “f” and “v” or “s” and “z”, which is the same distinction in a place where English makes it orthographically explicit.
---
### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/15 "2012-06-21T14:21:48Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#):
>
> Can we render pronunciation in a more meaningful and simple way? Instead of “ˈoʊdɨn” how about “OH-din” or whatever?
I personally try to do both, but the problem is, as stated, the differences between accents. I’ve run into this problem before on this board where plain English renderings of pronunciations were ambiguous, not just because we have Englishes from all around the world here, but also with dialectical differences within the US.
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> I agree completely with **HeyHomie**. In fact, one could argue that use of a specialized code in which just a handful of dopers is fluent can be seen as a violation of the SDMB rules on foreign language use.
Is this serious? IPA is just a symbolic system of representing sounds. It is nothing like a foreign language. It only takes a few minutes to get the basics down, but it may take a little while to get all the nuances. It honestly isn’t that difficult to learn, and it aids immensely in avoiding ambiguity in pronunciation discussions. Your complaint is like saying you can’t post math equations or even code because only a handful of dopers are “fluent” in it.
> [@ShibbOleth](#):
>
> And from which we derive the English “Wednesday”
> @Lemur - I don’t hear a difference between the “th” in “then” and “thin”. Do you have a different example?
Here’s the best ones I can think of. All the sounds are the same except for the quality of the “th”:
Ether (unvoiced ‘th’)
Either (voiced ‘th’)
Teeth (unvoiced)
Teethe (voiced)
Thigh (unvoiced)
Thy (voiced)
Thistle (unvoiced)
This’ll (voiced)
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### Author:  [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/16 "2012-06-21T14:41:36Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#):
>
> Because it looks sorta like a “d”, maybe? Similarly how nowadays we would pronounce “Ye” as “Yee” instead of “the” as in “ye olde [whatever]”, because of the similarity of the letters?
No one ever pronounced it “ye” or “yee”. The printing presses didn’t have the correct letter (thorn, pronounced “th”) so they substituted a y. It was always pronounced “the”.
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### Author:  [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/17 "2012-06-21T14:50:25Z")
> [@Sister\_Vigilante](#):
>
> No one ever pronounced it “ye” or “yee”. The printing presses didn’t have the correct letter (thorn, pronounced “th”) so they substituted a y. It was always pronounced “the”.
[Uh, no, they do now.](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ye) And just in case you missed it, I did qualify it as “nowadays.”
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### Author:  [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/18 "2012-06-21T14:57:27Z")
> [@leahcim](#):
>
> I find it helpful to think of the difference between “f” and “v” or “s” and “z”, which is the same distinction in a place where English makes it orthographically explicit.
Or d/t or c/g or p/b or h/a.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/19 "2012-06-21T15:03:37Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#):
>
> h/a.
What now? [h] is a voiceless glottal fricative, a consonant. Whatever you mean by “a,” it’s not a consonant.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spell-my-name-with-an-eth-why-is-odin-pronounced-like-it-is/625796/20 "2012-06-21T15:08:15Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#):
>
> Or d/t or c/g or p/b or h/a.
h/a? That pair doesn’t correspond. One’s a voiceless (or, in rare instances, voiced) glottal fricative, the other is a vowel. (And which of the many sounds of “a” are you talking about? This is where IPA comes in handy.)
Also, here is the complete order of voiceless/voiced pairs that I could think of in English:
p/b
t/d
f/v
k/g
s/z
sh/“zh” (as the sound in “treasure.”)
th (as in “thin”)/th (as in “then”)
Also, you could say ch/j (one is t+sh, the other is d+zh)
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