# Spelling...and a side dicsussion on slang **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 9, 2004, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418 "2004-06-09T06:40:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/1 "2004-06-09T06:40:51Z")
As children, we all learned that there are five vowels: A, E, I, O, and U. And of, course, sometimes Y. But that leads me to a few questions: 1. Why isn’t there ANY vowel in the word _rhythm_? And don’t give me that “Y is acting as a vowel” crap, either. I was taught that only happened at the end of a word. I can see it for the first syllable in _rhythm_, but why isn’t there a vowel in the second syllable? The -thm certainly sounds like the word _them_. Why doesn’t this syllable have a vowel? 2. I remember, for my grade school days (back in the Dark Ages) that the letter _W_ could also be a vowel on at least one occasion. But, for the life of me, I can’t remember what that occasion is. When is W a vowel? 3. Slightly off-topic: How does slang become used so readily? For example, all of the slang terms for penis. Right off the top of my head, I can think of cock, dick, rod, johnson, prick, sword, Russell the Love Muscle, the Love Gun, the Twig and Berries, etc (apologies if the language is a bit too rough for GQ). How do these slang terms catch on across a nation? Is it strictly through “word of mouth?” ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/2 "2004-06-09T06:47:19Z")
I was taught the same about the vowels. In answer to your question (2), the example that our teachers gave to us was not even English, but Welsh e.g. the hymn title _Cwm Rhonnda_. ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/3 "2004-06-09T07:27:49Z")
The first vowel in _rhythm_ is the high front lax vowel. Same as the one in the words _hit_ and _click_ for American English speakers. Depending on how you pronounce it, the second syllable of _rhythm_ has the mid central vowel (called a schwa) or the [m] sound is syllabic. Or if you are giving equal stress to both syllables, the vowel in the second syllable would be the other mid central vowel, called a carat. But usually we don’t stress the second syllable in _rhythm_, and unstressed vowels in American English become the schwa. Or to simplify things, you could say the final [m] sound is part of the coda of the first syllable too. But to me that’s kind of a stretch. It isn’t spelled with any of the canonical vowel letters (unless you count _y_), but there’s vowels in there. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/4 "2004-06-09T07:46:41Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > 1. Slightly off-topic: How does slang become used so readily? For example, all of the slang terms for penis. Right off the top of my head, I can think of cock, dick, rod, johnson, prick, sword, Russell the Love Muscle, the Love Gun, the Twig and Berries, etc (apologies if the language is a bit too rough for GQ). How do these slang terms catch on across a nation? Is it strictly through “word of mouth?” WAG: Someone coins a new slang expression, other people find it funny/amusing/useful because it’s not understood by the crusty oldies, so they start using it too which introduces it to a whole new set of people who also find it funny/amusing/useful and from there it just keeps spreading out. Any slang expression which isn’t instantly funny/amusing/useful and able to be understood by the masses dies a quick death and is forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![JonRelay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ab097/32.png) [@JonRelay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonRelay)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/5 "2004-06-09T08:18:04Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > 1. I remember, for my grade school days (back in the Dark Ages) that the letter _W_ could also be a vowel on at least one occasion. But, for the life of me, I can’t remember what that occasion is. When is W a vowel? I know this! I know when W is a vowel! In words like clown, town, sewn, etc., the W is a vowel because it combines with the other vowel to make a vowel sound; the actual W consonant sound doesn’t exist in those words. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/6 "2004-06-09T08:25:28Z")
When ‘y’ makes a vowel sound, it is functioning as a vowel. In rhythm, the y is making the short i sound, so it is the vowel. ‘W’ is a vowel is in the dipthong ‘ow’. Here it is taking the place and performing the function of the ‘u’ in the ‘ou’ dipthong. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/7 "2004-06-09T10:56:21Z")
As regards “rhythm”, I think it is a fair bet (so sorry, no cites as such) that the spelling was set by classical scholars. The word comes from the Latin _rhythmus_, and ultimately from the Greek, so inserting a vowel in-between the “th” (which of course are a single letter theta in Greek) and the “m” would seem wrong. In the adjectival form “rhythmic” there is no vowel sound there. The same pattern can be seen in, for example, microcosm (related root adjective -cosmic), which is also derived from Greek. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/8 "2004-06-09T13:14:48Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > 1. Why isn’t there ANY vowel in the word _rhythm_? Who says a word must be spelt with a vowel? Hmm? ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/9 "2004-06-09T13:39:34Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > And don’t give me that “Y is acting as a vowel” crap, either. Uh, S-dude, it’s usually not too helpful to ask a question and then call the anticipated answer “crap.” Fact is that the letter Y functions as an initial consonant in many words (e.g. young), and also as a vowel (e.g. shy). So, sometimes, it is, indeed, acting as a vowel. Much of your question appears to be rooted in the beliefs that 1) everything you are taught in school is correct. You obviously must know that is not so; 2) that grammar and spelling rules are prescriptive. They are not; they are descriptive. This little set of assumptions has caused you some grief. Question them. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/10 "2004-06-09T15:28:27Z")
_Frack! I typed a long explanation, then hit “Refresh” on my browser!!! :smack: Composing this one offline …_ … OK, **Superdude** … let’s break this down. **1)** The Roman alphabet represents the phonetic structure of English only inexactly. The rules you learned in grade school were rough and mostly usable – but not really accurate. Therefore, I will refer to [International Phonetic Association symbols](http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/fullchart.html) (indicated by brackets) as needed. **2)** The letter “Y”, like most letters, represents more than one sound in English. Among them are: a) the /y/ in \*young \* (IPA [j]). b) the /ee/ at the end of \*very \* (IPA [i]). c) the /short i/ in the first syllable \*synthesis \* (IPA [ι]). These three sounds are considered phonetically related, because the tongue is approximately in the same position for each. **3)** As the three sounds above are related, it is not inaccurate to phonetically describe the word _young_ as starting with the vowel [i] (or even [ι]) rather than the consonant [j]. In other words, there are [sounds in human language which dance upon the apparent boundary between vowel and consonant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximant). Just keep in mind that said boundary is essentially an illusion when scrutinized closely enough. **4)** OK, so why no vowel letter in the second syllable of rhythm? To put it simply: no vowel is required to generate a syllable – therefore no vowel letter is required. Hazel-rah nailed it in giving you the Cliff Notes. Here’s [the underlying detail](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=259490) taken from another recent thread: > [@bordelond](#): > > What throws people accustomed to Western languages is that in some dialects (_viz_ Cantonese), Chinese allows syllables that consist solely of a consonant sound. > > In this case, that consonant is the velar nasal “ng” (International Phonetic Association symbol is “ŋ”). Compare the velar nasal to the familiar bilabial nasal (m) and alveolar nasal (n). Like **m** and **n** , **ng** can be pronounced in an extended manner – one can hum “mmmmm”, “nnnnnn”. Likewise, one can also hum **ng** – “ŋŋŋŋŋŋŋŋŋ”. > > By contrast, consonants like **t** and **k** cannot be extended. Their pronunciation has a temporary and punctuated saliency. > > What does this all mean? In short, a few languages allow extendable consonants to form syllabic nuclei in much the same way as (naturally extendable) vowels do (like English! - _bordelond_). So the name _Ng_ can be regarded in the same way as names like “Oh” (Japanese) and “U” (Burmese) – it is a single-sound syllable. > > Other extendable sounds are used to form syllabic nuclei. Not too unfamiliar are the use or **r** and **l** as syllabic nuclei in Slavic languages – Czech **Plzen** , Serbo-Croatian **hrvatski**. > > Also, IIRC, in some dialects of Chinese, the number “two” (Mandarin “two” spelled **er[sup]4[/sup]** in Pinyin) is pronounced much like “zzzzzzzzzh”, except the tongue tip is raised near the roof of the mouth. > > Finally, in some American Indian languages, such [Bella Coola](http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/naind/html/na_034200_salishanlang.htm), words like **sps** “northeastern wind” (pronounced more or less “sss-psss”) and **stn** “tree” (pronounced “ssst-nnn”) exist. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/11 "2004-06-09T15:34:21Z")
As stated above, the Welsh language gives us _cwm_ (pronounced koom; means mountain) and also _crwth_ (pronounced krooth, means lyre). ---
**Author:** ![alimarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@alimarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alimarx)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/12 "2004-06-09T15:37:28Z")
The Welsh-derived English word [_crwth_](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=crwth&config=define) has _w_ acting as a vowel, literally a _double u_. ---
**Author:** ![alimarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@alimarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alimarx)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/13 "2004-06-09T15:38:30Z")
Awww, shucks… ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/14 "2004-06-09T16:03:14Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > As children, we all learned that there are five vowels: A, E, I, O, and U. And of, course, sometimes Y. But that leads me to a few questions: > > 1. Why isn’t there ANY vowel in the word _rhythm_? And don’t give me that “Y is acting as a vowel” crap, either. I was taught that only happened at the end of a word. I can see it for the first syllable in _rhythm_, but why isn’t there a vowel in the second syllable? The -thm certainly sounds like the word _them_. Why doesn’t this syllable have a vowel? You actually managed to pay _too much_ attention in elementary school. School teachers are trying to teach enough about language and writing to allow literacy; they don’t get into linguistics to explain how words work to the young’uns. Most of them probably don’t have any real knowledge of linguistics in the first place - so your teacher may have believed that we can set simple rules for how words are pronounced and spelled, and may have believed in nonsense like “never split an infinitive” or “it’s pronounced this way because of how its spelled”, or even the barbaric idiocy “ain’t isn’t a word, so don’t say it in my classroom!”, even when those notions are baseless. As stated above, there’s certainly vowels in “rhythm” - a “short I” (to use the common term for the sound) spelled with a “y” in the first syllable, and in my dialect at least, a schwa in the second syllable. So we don’t write it. Who cares? It’s still got two vowels in it. The letters AEIOU and sometimes Y are not vowels. They are letters - marks on paper. These letters generally are used to stand for vowel sounds in writing, but as you’ve no doubt noticed in the past, written English is not necessarily perfect in its representation of pronunciation. A vowel is a sound made with no obstruction in the mouth - its sound is created by a continuous voicing and the resonance created by the shape of the mouth. The “long O”, for instance, for me involves dropping the jaw slightly, moving the tongue back, rounding the lips, and tightening the throat slightly. The letters we call “vowels” are just the particular symbols that most commonly reflect vowel sounds. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-and-a-side-dicsussion-on-slang/249418/15 "2004-06-11T21:43:03Z")
> [@CC](#): > > Uh, S-dude, it’s usually not too helpful to ask a question and then call the anticipated answer “crap.” I think you were wooshed right then. That was tongue-in-cheek.