# Spelling Bee has 8 winners: any way to get down to 1? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 1, 2019, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861 "2019-06-01T04:49:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/21 "2019-06-02T19:44:28Z")
A literate high-schooler should be able to spell Göbekli Tepe; Ipomoea batatas; 1,3,7-Trimethylxantine; and Württemberg. A few words like this should separate the wheat from the chaff. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/22 "2019-06-02T22:48:24Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > I thought the only list that the competitors saw in advance was for only the first round. > My thought as well - at some point, read out the word, alternate pronunciations, definition, origin, and usage in a sentence, and have all of the competitors write down the answer. The National Geographic Bee doesn’t seem to have a problem with a “same questions for everybody” method. > > Another change they need to consider; get rid of the live broadcast. I have a feeling the real problem was, whoever (ABC? ESPN?) was airing it wanted to be able to show “the winner” on the broadcast without extending it or continuing the next night (and another night also may not have been an option for some of the competitors). The first round includes a written test, and also a list of words where children have to pick the best definition. The results are weighted, and that’s how they narrow the broadcasted (online or on TV) rounds down to 50 at first. For a couple years, the finals were broadcasted on network TV, but the ratings didn’t justify continuing it, so they went back to ESPN. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/23 "2019-06-03T00:04:41Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Do you have some evidence that the limitation to the 472,000 words in the dictionary (whose name I gave above) only applies to the first round? No, I don’t, and for a good reason - because they never have, except in the first round, where, in the past, they were given a list of words (I can’t remember how many) that would be used. After the first round, all words in the dictionary are in play. The post I replied to said, “These kids are given massive lists of these words ahead of time to study.” I do not consider an entire dictionary “a list.” However, [the rules](http://spellingbee.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/Contest_Rules_of_the_2019_Scripps_National_Spelling_Bee.pdf) don’t mention a “required list” of words in any round, although it does mention something called the “Spelling Bee word list,” but that may just be the list of words they have compiled for use in the competition. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/24 "2019-06-03T00:38:48Z")
The dictionary is the only thing that the participants know about before they come to the National Spelling Bee. That must be what Hampshire was talking about in using the phrase “massive lists”. You might not consider a dictionary a list, but it appear to me that Hampshire does. I presume that in the rules the phrase “Spelling Bee word list” is the secret list that no one but the judges know about which tells them which words to use in the bee and in which order. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/25 "2019-06-03T03:05:19Z")
Agree with no more lists, and use the OED after a set number of rounds. Right now you have multiple kids with the ability to memorize every word on the list or in the dictionary used, the only way they can miss is a slip of the tongue or nerve related gaffe. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/26 "2019-06-03T06:35:27Z")
Once you get down to the final 8 (or maybe even 16) contestants, randomly pair them off, then wheel out a couple of soundproof booths onto the stage for knockout rounds. They get the same word, and whoever spells it correctly the fastest advances. I think it would be good television to see little Johnny and little Jane separately wondering if they can afford to ask for the language of origin and all that other stuff not knowing what the other is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/27 "2019-06-03T07:14:41Z")
Snooooopy, I think that your idea would have the same problem that the idea which borschevsky proposed of having multiple stages. I think that the people running the National Spelling Bee would consider this to be too different from how a spelling bee traditionally works. Even if you could persuade the people running it that it would make the bee go faster and get down to a single winner more easily, they wouldn’t want to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_Raygun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c67d28/32.png) [@Ronald\_Raygun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_Raygun)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/28 "2019-06-03T07:45:16Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > A literate high-schooler should be able to spell Göbekli Tepe; Ipomoea batatas; 1,3,7-Trimethylxantine; and Württemberg. A few words like this should separate the wheat from the chaff. I believe it’s “1,3,7-trimethylxant **h** ine”. Do I win? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/29 "2019-06-03T22:22:43Z")
Few ideas: 1. Lower the max age for the participants. 2. Cumulative timer for all answers. After a certain number of rounds start disqualifying the player with the highest time, rinse, lather repeat. 3. Stop providing the list ahead of time. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/30 "2019-06-04T02:13:43Z")
Never mind ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/31 "2019-06-04T04:21:14Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Snooooopy, I think that your idea would have the same problem that the idea which borschevsky proposed of having multiple stages. I think that the people running the National Spelling Bee would consider this to be too different from how a spelling bee traditionally works. Even if you could persuade the people running it that it would make the bee go faster and get down to a single winner more easily, they wouldn’t want to do it. Well, I don’t care what those clowns at the National Spelling Bee think. I have found some deep-pocketed nerds who want to help me launch a scrappy rival organization. It’s going to be called the United Spelling Federation League. It’ll be so popular. Why? Because the format involves brackets, and it is common knowledge that people in this country love putting things in brackets. We are going to steal all of the National Spelling Bee’s best spellers and make them kneel before Zod. When people look back on the USFL, they are going to remember how completely successful it was in tearing down an established and powerful organization. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/32 "2019-06-04T13:46:39Z")
What about spelling the words backwards? Seems like that would be more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/33 "2019-06-04T15:34:11Z")
s’taht egnahc I nac eveileb ni! ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/34 "2019-06-04T15:34:42Z")
Count me in as someone who doesn’t see why this is still a thing. There was a time when knowing how to spell obscure words was a useful tool in one’s belt, particularly if one intended to go into journalism or some other word-based career. Nowadays the ability to spell obscure words is naught but a pointless exercise in academia for its own sake. If these kids’ parents are going to push them so hard to succeed (and let’s face it, how many of them are there because their parents pushed them?), push them into [a competition that matters](https://www.idtech.com/blog/ultimate-guide-to-stem-competitions-events). ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/35 "2019-06-04T20:14:40Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What about spelling the words backwards? Seems like that would be more difficult. You must have missed NBC’s _Genius Junior_ series last year. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/36 "2019-06-04T21:20:12Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Trial by combat. “That wraps up our last round of words…” _Throw a bunch of swords onstage_ “There can be only ONEEEEEE!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/37 "2019-06-04T21:40:33Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > “That wraps up our last round of words…” > _Throw a bunch of swords onstage_ > “There can be only ONEEEEEE!!!” How ironic that this came about from a typo in the rules talking about “challenge swords” instead of “challenge words”. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/38 "2019-06-04T23:58:48Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > You must have missed NBC’s _Genius Junior_ series last year. Yes, yes I did. Did they do backward spelling? How did it go? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/39 "2019-06-06T09:22:35Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > We’ve previously discussed this in this thread: > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=876423](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=876423) > > As I said there, the top eight people today are far better than the top one person when the contest began. In the 1920’s, the winning words were gladiolus, cerise, abrogate, knack, and luxuriance. This year the eight winning words were auslaut, erysipelas, bougainvillea, aiguillette, pendeloque, palama, cernuous, and odylic. This has nothing to do with participation trophies. The problem is that the participants today are so much better than they were in the early years that it already requires using incredibly obscure words to distinguish them. Now get the kids to define those. The definition provided must be non-circular, understandable within normal vocabulary and complete for normal use: “a flower” or “a bush” for bougainvillea doesn’t tell you how is a bougainvillea different from other flowers or bushes, but it’s something most people would understand and the level of detail is enough in most cases; in a conversation that’s not about gardening/flowers, it’s fine. “Any member of the Bougainvillea genus” is circular, so not acceptable. “Related to odyl” is inadequate because most people’s reaction would be “so WTF is odyl?” ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861/40 "2019-06-06T12:47:52Z")
Spell a word, do a shot. Seperate the wheat from the chaff PDQ. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-has-8-winners-any-way-to-get-down-to-1/834861.md?page=3)