# Spelling Bee Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 1, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-question/406430 "2007-06-01T23:43:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-question/406430/61 "2007-06-08T14:09:58Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Sure it does. It either is or is not possible to say for certain that a particular word is an English word. [/quote] It is possible if you define “English word” for me. It is not possible if you do not. > [@](#): > > But what I was getting at is that, in this thread, two definitions of “an English word” have been set forth. 1) It is in an English Dictionary, and 2) It is in use but not yet recognized. The second definition is sufficiently vague as to cause me to assert that it is impossible to know \*with certainty \*whether any particular word is an English word. Well, you just have to define “in use” a little better. > [@](#): > > Also, a bet is not a certainty. OK, I’ll change it to “I am **certain** those are not English words.” Problem solved! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-question/406430/62 "2007-06-08T15:07:01Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] It is possible if you define “English word” for me. It is not possible if you do not. [/QUOTE] That definition is what I am trying to get at. > [@](#): > > Well, you just have to define “in use” a little better. Respectfully, the onus is on the ones who assert “in use” as a benchmark. Any of the definitions in this thread will do. > [@](#): > > OK, I’ll change it to “I am **certain** those are not English words.” Problem solved! To clarify : I meant “you” in the indefinite sense. I am looking for a \*method \*that anyone can apply to determine whether a word is an English word, not an attestation. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-question/406430/63 "2007-06-08T17:18:34Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] That definition is what I am trying to get at. [/QUOTE] Do you mean you want to find an “official” definition from a recognized authority, or you want us here at the board to arrive at a consensus on what the definition should be? If the latter, I will propose this as a starting point: words in the English language are the set of words contained in the OED _or_ Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary. The set of words changes with each new edition of either of those dictionaries. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-question/406430/64 "2007-06-08T17:23:51Z")
If your next question is “what method will the OED or the Webster’s unabridged use to change the set of words?”, this link may be of interest: [New Words: How do they get into the Oxford English Dictionary?](http://www.askoxford.com/worldofwords/newwords/newwordsdict/?view=uk) ([askoxford.com](http://askoxford.com)) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-question/406430/65 "2007-06-08T17:36:15Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] If your next question is “what method will the OED or the Webster’s unabridged use to change the set of words?”, this link may be of interest: [New Words: How do they get into the Oxford English Dictionary?](http://www.askoxford.com/worldofwords/newwords/newwordsdict/?view=uk) ([askoxford.com](http://askoxford.com)) [/QUOTE] Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-question/406430/66 "2007-06-08T19:55:37Z")
Here’s an interesting (to me, at least) tidbit. In a _Games Magazine_ article concerning _Scrabble_, it was revealed that the game really isn’t about language but is more about Math and strategy. I guess that’s because one’s dealing with sets of elements and numerical values for placement of those elements. ---
**Author:** ![qubed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f07891/32.png) [@qubed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qubed)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-question/406430/67 "2007-06-09T07:08:33Z")
[QUOTE=Erik the Viking] BZZZZZZT! Oh, the [irony](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/antediluvian) ! [/QUOTE] touché, touché. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-question/406430/68 "2007-06-09T19:14:44Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Here’s an interesting (to me, at least) tidbit. In a _Games Magazine_ article concerning _Scrabble_, it was revealed that the game really isn’t about language but is more about Math and strategy. I guess that’s because one’s dealing with sets of elements and numerical values for placement of those elements. [/QUOTE] That’s exactly why, when people learn that I like crossword puzzles, they often assume that I must like Scrabble too, and I really don’t. I consider them very different cognitive processes, in that Scrabble takes hardly any language skills at all, aside from the bare ability to recognize a word. Ed ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-question/406430/69 "2007-06-09T21:21:46Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Sure, but dghaisa? How does it suit? Seen one lately? Not to be a smartass, but hoe does this particular word qualify as English? [/QUOTE] Interestingly, the word was the last one spelled by Finola Hackett in winning last year’s [Canadian national bee,](http://www.canada.com/national/features/canspell/story.html?id=fa5f77ce-4e30-47ed-a4d1-2a4d724e24ed) yet it doesn’t appear in the Canadian Oxford dictionary. However, it did appear in the dictionary Finola studied, as well as the one used in the CanWest CanSpell competition. Because the British Empire included so many lands, words from those lands’ languages (including [Maltese)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta) were readily adapted into English. See the bottom of [this page](http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:eQWZvugb3D4J:meritbadge.net/books/YoungKnightsOfTheEmpire/part17.htm+dghaisa&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us) for Sir Robert Baden-Powell’s take on the spelling of “dghaisa”, as well as his description of receiving a model of this craft. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-bee-question/406430.md?page=3)