# Spelling, cover letters, and sheer mortification **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 19, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142 "2011-10-19T14:29:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/81 "2011-10-20T11:19:37Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > But it is not the perfectionism I’m exhorting them to embrace, it’s the pursuit of perfectionism: if your goal is perfectionism, then you won’t quit until you think you’ve got it (and sometimes you’ll be wrong–hence all the errors in printed material) but if perfectionism is NOT your goal, if “close enough for jazz” is your desired aim, then you’re guaranteed to have errors in virtually every sentence you write, and that means that I don’t want to hire you as an editor, a writer, a professor of English, a dogcatcher, nor to swab out toilets with your tongue. I don’t want to hire you, period, for anything. Pursuit of perfectionism is fine for some occupations. In others, the big picture matters more than the little details. I would want my boss to critique me if I’m submitting badly written reports, sure. But I would critique he or her harshly if they couldn’t come up with ideas or coordinate people, even if they were great grammarians. My rule is that if I’m writing something that, if we were back in the olden times, would have been distributed in hard copy form (like a report or memo), then I need to triple and quadruple check myself. Because reports and memos represent me and my office and tend to stick around for awhile. They are also read for details, particularly if they are guidance documents. Even the slightest errors tend to confuse people if they are hanging on your every word. If I’m firing off a quick email to someone, I’m not going to spend quite so much time on it. If I discover a mistake that has the potential to confuse, I’ll send a clarifying email immediately. But I’m not going to bother turning on my spell check because I hate those annoying squiggly lines (and in a highly specialized field that uses a lot of acronyms, the squiggly lines are a constant eyesore). Sure, I’ve sent out some embarrassing messages. But more likely than not, I’m the only one who has noticed that I misspelled a word or I used “know” instead of “now.” If I’m taking notes just for myself, I dial back my conscientious further. Most people do this. I work with a person who does not do this, though. I find her quite tedious to work with. She sees every assignment as an enormous chore because she doesn’t know how to prioritize what needs to be double-checked and what needs to be quadrupled-checked. EVERYTHING has to be poured over. When the deadline is looming and she’s still running a spell and grammar check on Access fields that no one reads or cares about…and I’m the one responsible for keeping the project on track…that kind of shit bugs the hell out of me. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/82 "2011-10-20T11:51:27Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > But it is not the perfectionism I’m exhorting them to embrace, it’s the pursuit of perfectionism: if your goal is perfectionism, then you won’t quit until you think you’ve got it (and sometimes you’ll be wrong–hence all the errors in printed material) but if perfectionism is NOT your goal, if “close enough for jazz” is your desired aim, then you’re guaranteed to have errors in virtually every sentence you write, and that means that I don’t want to hire you as an editor, a writer, a professor of English, a dogcatcher, nor to swab out toilets with your tongue. I don’t want to hire you, period, for anything. This is a good point, and one of the tips given to new fanfic authors: if your fic starts off with a bunch of typos, that means I (the reader) will assume that you (the author) either didn’t care enough to spend time proof-reading it/ giving it to a beta-reader: but if you didn’t care enough, why should I spend the time reading it, esp. since I can read any of a dozen other fics that were proofread? Or it means that you don’t have enough mastery of the basics of your craft, spelling so you probably suck at plot and characterization, too. So again, why should I, the reader, waste my time reading this instead of something else? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/83 "2011-10-20T11:55:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > :smack: Flawless, I tell you, Flawless! > > Jesus. When **Polycarp** mentioned smiley’s political weirdness, I almost made a crack about how I perpetually confuse SA and SB. But then I got distracted by trying to proof my post oh-so-carefully to avoid mistakes. Gaudere, you win again! Watch out for **SC**. I don’t know who that is, but s/he’s bound to be a weirdo. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/84 "2011-10-20T12:42:37Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Amazing. I point out a rare mistake of my own because it was an embarassing rarity, post my best-guess as to why it occurred, and am immediately attacked on a personal level by a poster who never met me, and who begins making judgements about my personality and work habits. > > So, alright, oh little perfect **Snow Pea**. Please, tell us all how wonderful perfect you are and how you never made such a mistake. You have never once made a mistake in some “important,” hmm? Dude, you realize this is the Pit, right? You pitted yourself and invited people to pile on. What did you expect? > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Editing is not about your skill at punching keys. It’s about analyzing the flow of the document, reorganizing, reccomending deletions, or even suggesting additions, and correcting errors that you see . While you’re right that editing is not about merely punching keys, it \*is \*about your spelling and grammar ability and your diligence to perfect it. > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Forums are conversations, and I don’t usually edit posts. Sorry, I call BS. How can you hone and refine your editing skills if you do not practice them in all your own written works? I would _recommend_ that you change this attitude, adopt a new work ethic, and practice your skills when composing any written message. There is a lot of truth in the adage “Practice makes perfect” ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/85 "2011-10-20T14:04:00Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Pursuit of perfectionism is fine for some occupations. In others, the big picture matters more than the little details. I would want my boss to critique me if I’m submitting badly written reports, sure. But I would critique he or her harshly if they couldn’t come up with ideas or coordinate people, even if they were great grammarians. Um, … no. The OP is about an application for an editorial position, and pseudotrition used the example of English class. Both cases were correct spelling is the most basic (next step is grammar and word use) ability. Pursuit of perfection is as important in every other field of work, as well as in private life. It just takes different forms: when writing programms, perfection means not coding errors (minimum) but also writing code that the next person can understand, that is well structured and … well, therefore nice (for that field). When making a car, perfection means casting each part within the specs, tightening each screw and not only every third and so on. In private life, perfection means making the best out of your talents and not being satisfied with just muddling along. It’s another version of the old proverb “If you take the time to do something, take the time to do it right” (otherwise, delegate it). Whether you knit socks in your spare time or play the bagpipe, you should give your best, or buy socks / a tape of bagpipe music. > [@](#): > > My rule is that if I’m writing something that, if we were back in the olden times, would have been distributed in hard copy form (like a report or memo), then I need to triple and quadruple check myself. Because reports and memos represent me and my office and tend to stick around for awhile. They are also read for details, particularly if they are guidance documents. Even the slightest errors tend to confuse people if they are hanging on your every word. And an application is something serious. Also, if anything goes outside your company, even if it’s something about machines, I at least will notice typoes and it will lower my estimate of the attention to detail your company has: instead of thinking “They’re technicians, why should they bother with correct English?” I will think “If they don’t pay attention to correct English enough to pay a proofreader, then they aren’t going to care about detail when making their machines, either.” > [@](#): > > If I’m firing off a quick email to someone, I’m not going to spend quite so much time on it. If I discover a mistake that has the potential to confuse, I’ll send a clarifying email immediately. But I’m not going to bother turning on my spell check because I hate those annoying squiggly lines (and in a highly specialized field that uses a lot of acronyms, the squiggly lines are a constant eyesore). That is true, the squiggly lines are annoying. > [@](#): > > Sure, I’ve sent out some embarrassing messages. But more likely than not, I’m the only one who has noticed that I misspelled a word or I used “know” instead of “now.” > > If I’m taking notes just for myself, I dial back my conscientious further. Actually, my experience so far (a lot from the sidelines) is that people who work in labs or technical fields or who are programmers tend to get into the habit of paying attention to detail because it matters: mistype while programming and a wrong minus means a whole space probe worth several millions get lost; mistype n (for nano) with mü (for micro) and everything is off by 1/1000ths etc. > [@](#): > > Most people do this. I work with a person who does not do this, though. I find her quite tedious to work with. She sees every assignment as an enormous chore because she doesn’t know how to prioritize what needs to be double-checked and what needs to be quadrupled-checked. EVERYTHING has to be poured over. When the deadline is looming and she’s still running a spell and grammar check on Access fields that no one reads or cares about…and I’m the one responsible for keeping the project on track…that kind of shit bugs the hell out of me. Being anal-retentive and lacking the skill to prioritize has got nothing to do with the overall philosophy or attitude of achieving perfection. Obviously it’s impossible to achieve perfection in every area, because people have different skills and work in different fields and levels; also because it would take too much time. Prioritizing is part; but getting into the general attitude that exact words matter because there is a difference is a good idea. (Old Kungfutse already wrote about the importance of exact words). ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/86 "2011-10-20T14:10:30Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > pseudotrition used the example of English class. well, technically, I also included “swabbing out my toilet with your tongue,” which was an over-statement for effect. If anyone would care to swab out my toilet with his or her tongue, I will probably hire you without much attention being paid to your sense of perfectionism. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/87 "2011-10-20T14:11:08Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > But it is not the perfectionism I’m exhorting them to embrace, it’s the pursuit of perfectionism: if your goal is perfectionism, then you won’t quit until you think you’ve got it (and sometimes you’ll be wrong–hence all the errors in printed material) but if perfectionism is NOT your goal, if “close enough for jazz” is your desired aim, then you’re guaranteed to have errors in virtually every sentence you write, and that means that I don’t want to hire you as an editor, a writer, a professor of English, a dogcatcher, nor to swab out toilets with your tongue. I don’t want to hire you, period, for anything. You should have used “perfection” in place of “perfectionism” all but the first time in that paragraph. And the first clause is just a mess. Rewrite and resubmit. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/88 "2011-10-20T14:17:58Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Sorry, I call BS. How can you hone and refine your editing skills if you do not practice them in all your own written works? I would _recommend_ that you change this attitude, adopt a new work ethic, and practice your skills when composing any written message. There is a lot of truth in the adage “Practice makes perfect” Because yiou ignore the value of _time_. I don’t have unlimited time to do these things, and must pick and choose priorities. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/89 "2011-10-20T14:41:04Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Because yiou ignore the value of _time_. I don’t have unlimited time to do these things, and must pick and choose priorities. So why waste your time and the other person’s time by applying for an _editors job_? That doesn’t make sense. Either you want to become an editor because you like working with language and think you’re good at it - then you need to hone your skill and keep it current (use it or loose it applies there, too). Or you don’t want to spend time improving your typing/ spelling/ language skill - then stop applying for editor positions. Doing one but not the other is counterproductive and truly a waste of time. Do it right or don’t do it; but right now you’re doing it half-assed. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/90 "2011-10-20T15:55:16Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Because yiou ignore the value of _time_. I don’t have unlimited time to do these things, and must pick and choose priorities. Yeah, I get that. My handwriting was terrible, and frankly with the ubiquity of keyboards, I didn’t need good handwriting, so I didn’t practice it: it wasn’t important to me. Wanna guess how many calligraphers’ jobs I applied for? However, I eventually decided I wanted to get into a line of work in which handwriting is important: teaching elementary school. I’d need to be able to write clearly on a whiteboard (or, later, SmartBoard), and I’d need to be able to write clearly on student work, and I’d need to be able to teach students how to improve their own handwriting. So I began practicing it. Not just when I was on the clock, but also when I was writing grocery lists, doodling the Sunday Puzzler, solving crossword puzzles, and the like. Now my handwriting is pretty good. If I’d decided only to practice it when (for example) I’m writing up my class’s daily schedule, it’d still be pretty terrible. But I wanted the job, so I practiced all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/91 "2011-10-20T16:34:22Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Because yiou ignore the value of _time_. I don’t have unlimited time to do these things, and must pick and choose priorities. It doesn’t take significant time to spell-check an online post. If you use a modern browser it will happen inline. Watch: Snugglefart. The word in front of this sentence is underlined in red on my screen. How fucking _amazing_. Maybe you aren’t what people are looking for in an editor? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/92 "2011-10-20T16:55:38Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > You should have used “perfection” in place of “perfectionism” all but the first time in that paragraph. And the first clause is just a mess. Rewrite and resubmit. Both correct. Pay me, and I will comply. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/93 "2011-10-20T16:56:03Z")
This thread is one of the reasons why I don’t like to let on that I write/edit for a living. While I tend to compose my posts in Word, errors in spelling, grammar and punctuation do creep in. Also, I am an inherently atrocious speller—when I was a wee lad, I thought I could fake the teacher out with poor penmanship. My thinking was that since she knew I was smart I’d get the benefit of the doubt. Nope. I ended up with poor grades, poor spelling, and poor penmanship. Also, I could never be bothered (as a student) learning and memorizing, well, _anything_, so grammar names and cases wholly eluded me. But nonetheless, I’m at the top of my bracket rate-wise. Clients don’t hire me to catch their spelling errors; they hire me to add an analytical framework to otherwise incomprehensible gobbledegook. I, in turn, hire proofreaders. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/94 "2011-10-20T19:54:06Z")
Yarr, people here don’t seem to understand, unless they’ve done it before, that the ability to type has precisely nothing to do with the ability to edit, or even spellcheck. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/95 "2011-10-20T20:06:35Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Yarr, people here don’t seem to understand, unless they’ve done it before, that the ability to type has precisely nothing to do with the ability to edit, or even spellcheck. What? This is a total non sequitur. You’re not being criticized for an inability to type, nor did you apply for a job typing. You’re not even being criticized for not proofreading your own work. True, proofreading isn’t the only part of an editor’s job–but it is one aspect of the job, especially at the sort of entry-level position you appear to want. What you’re being criticized for is something much deeper than that: you’re being criticized for not making the changes you need to make in order to get what you want. If a kid comes to me smacking himself in the face and crying about how much it hurts, I’ll tell him to stop smacking himself in the face. If he continues smacking himself in the face, I won’t have much sympathy for him. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/96 "2011-10-20T20:07:42Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Yarr, people here don’t seem to understand, unless they’ve done it before, that the ability to type has precisely nothing to do with the ability to edit, or even spellcheck. No, but the willingness to go back and actually edit and spellcheck what you’ve typed does. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/97 "2011-10-20T20:51:33Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Yarr, people here don’t seem to understand, unless they’ve done it before, that the ability to type has precisely nothing to do with the ability to edit, or even spellcheck. This is true, but the writing samples you have posted [in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=627607) prove to me that you have no business even applying for a professional editing job. ---
**Author:** ![Snow\_Pea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Snow\_Pea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snow_Pea)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/98 "2011-10-21T00:26:11Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > This is true, but the writing samples you have posted [in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=627607) prove to me that you have no business even applying for a professional editing job. Geez. That’s really awful writing. Sorry, Bandit, but you’re really in the wrong profession. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/99 "2011-10-21T01:23:45Z")
> [@Snow\_Pea](#): > > Geez. That’s really awful writing. > > Sorry, Bandit, but you’re really in the wrong profession. :eek: But you’re only saying that because you have his best interests at heart, right? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142/100 "2011-10-21T02:49:12Z")
I edit _technical_ writing, jerkass. I’m still developing my literary skills. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-cover-letters-and-sheer-mortification/600142.md?page=6)