# Spelling weird wierd **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 18, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853 "2004-05-18T22:18:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/21 "2004-05-19T16:39:40Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > [You left out a few:](http://alt-usage-english.org/I_before_E.html) > > In other words, the I before E rule sucks. Heh, I have fought against this “rule” for too long. I say that any “rule” that has so many exceptions with neither rhyme nor reason is no rule at all. It is hardly even a decent guideline. Worthless, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/22 "2004-05-19T17:04:17Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > There are two words I consistently **CANNOT** spell: > > Guarantee, and Restaurant Well I improved my chance of spelling restaurant correctly by thinking of the word as meaning the thing which restores you. That with the knowledge that there is a u somewhere in there which I blaim on the French, leads me to get it right occasionally. Thoroughly used to be impossible until I realized it was really the combination of the two words Thor Roughly, which makes perfect sense to me. When you double or do not double a letter makes no sence to me, as does the use of -se or -ce at the end of words meking the same sound. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/23 "2004-05-19T22:40:34Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > beige, cleidoic, codeine, conscience, deify, deity, deign, dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty, foreign, forfeit, freight, gleization, gneiss, greige, greisen, heifer, heigh-ho, height, heinous, heir, heist, leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, prescient, rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik, society, sovereign, surfeit, teiid, veil, vein, weight, weir, weird, caffeine, casein, codeine, deil, disseize, either, geisha, inveigle,keister, leisure, monteith, neither, obeisance, phenolphthalein, phthalein, protein, seize, seizin, sheik, sheila, specie, species, teiid Has anyone even better ideas for causing me to faint while Dyslex tries to figure this out? (no joke… I must not even try to read this). Is this a new form of torture? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/24 "2004-05-19T22:58:58Z")
> [@](#): > > beige, cleidoic, **codeine** , conscience, deify, deity, deign, dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty, foreign, forfeit, freight, gleization, gneiss, greige, greisen, heifer, heigh-ho, height, heinous, heir, heist, leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, **prescient** , rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik, society, sovereign, surfeit, **teiid** , veil, vein, weight, weir, weird, caffeine, casein, **codeine** , deil, disseize, either, geisha, inveigle,keister, leisure, monteith, neither, obeisance, phenolphthalein, phthalein, protein, seize, seizin, sheik, sheila, specie, species, **teiid** This list leaves much to be desired. I’d also like to see on what order of magnitude it is outclassed by the list of words that contain an “i before e.” Re: OP, Yeah, wierd sucks. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/25 "2004-05-19T23:01:23Z")
Oh yeah, I missed **conscience** , **science** , **society** , **specie** , and **species**. ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/26 "2004-05-19T23:13:44Z")
Isn’t somebody’s sig around here > [@](#): > > I before E, except after C? What a strange society! ? BTW, **Einmon** , [viscous](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=viscous) and [vicious](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=vicious) are both real words. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/27 "2004-05-19T23:44:55Z")
Certainly this is the most trivial spelling rant ever on these boards. ---
**Author:** ![RobuSensei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@RobuSensei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobuSensei)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/28 "2004-05-20T07:19:06Z")
> [@Mama Tiger](#): > > I before E except after C > or when sounded as A in “neighbor” and “weigh.” > But “their,” “ **weird** ,” and “either,” > “Foreign,” “seize,” “neither,” > “Leisure,” “forfeit,” and “height” > Are exceptions spelled right Am I the only one who suddenly had a flashback of Snoopy playing a jaw harp upon reading this? (If I recall correctly, Linus also tossed in codeine and caffeine) ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/29 "2004-05-20T07:58:28Z")
The i before e rule is a rule of thumb for learning to spell digraphs, or constructions in which the two letters function together to make a single sound. Thus, words such as science, weird, or society don’t fall under the rule, as the two letters occur in two different syllables and make two different sounds. This rule of thumb is intended to be used by people just learning common ie/ei words (ie, elementary school students), and is fairly reliable for that purpose. It becomes less reliable as less commonly used words are added to the list, true but as new words are added to one’s use vocabulary, they can be learned on a case by case basis. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/30 "2004-05-20T10:22:40Z")
> [@luluBahrain](#): > > Well, I guess I’ll admit that I have a huge problem remembering how to spell either. In fact I don’t evn know if that is correct. I always want to put extra i’s and e’s in it. > Plus, I use too many commas and right run on sentences. But, damn it, I can spell weird correctly. I am guilty as charged. I’m one of the people who can never remember how to spell “weird”, or “occaision” for that matter. I’ve also see “guarantee” spelled two different ways in the same official document. I’ve just double-checked “occaision” in the dictionary, by the way, and even though my dictionary has it spelled that way, it _still_ looks wrong to me. I also use too many run-on sentences, and I have a weakness for semicolons. It could be worse, though, folks. I like **Weirdave** , I am afflicted with people who misspell my handle, some of them people I quite like. I will also shame-facedly admit that when I signed up with this handle at a different messageboard, I misspelled it myself. Talk about having to go grovelling to a moderator! :o Siege ---
**Author:** ![look\_ninjas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/31 "2004-05-20T12:37:08Z")
I’d always thought the rule was - I before E, except after C And when sounding like A As in Neighbor and Weigh And you’ll always be wrong No matter what you say ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/32 "2004-05-20T13:22:30Z")
For a few months, I was actually an assistant editor at Weird Tales. I dealt with far too many letters adressed to Wierd Tales. It’s even more annoying when you know that the person misspelling weird is looking at the proper spelling when copying the street address. The boss often joked about publishing a humor issue entitled Wierd Tales, or a coffee and caffeine themed issue Wired Tales. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/33 "2004-05-20T13:26:27Z")
Isn’t “i before e except after c” an **ancient** rule? And I think “wierd” is on its way to becoming an accepted alternate spelling. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/34 "2004-05-20T13:37:20Z")
I wouldn’t call it ancient. IMHO English spelling hasn’t been standardised long enough for any of the rules to be ancient. I actually support the acceptance of alternate spellings (lite, nite, etc). English is a rich language due to having both Latinate and Germanic elements (Asimov wrote a fine article on this). But this makes spelling massively confusing. However when the correct spelling of weird is on the same page as the address, and the person is submitting a manuscript, it’s just annoying to see wierd. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/35 "2004-05-20T13:41:40Z")
**Doc** –Let me explain the ancient concept of being “whoooshed” ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/36 "2004-05-20T13:54:44Z")
I disagree that this constitutes a whoosh. Outside of formal writing, many alternate spellings _are_ becoming accepted. I took your use of the word ancient to mean that you thought the rule was archaic and should be done away with. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/37 "2004-05-20T14:02:56Z")
No, I was using the word **ancient** as an example of when “i before e except after c” \*\* doesn’t apply\*\*. Do I have to hit you over the head with a wierd, ancient beast? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/38 "2004-05-20T14:18:01Z")
Ah, I see. I believe the proper response is :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/39 "2004-05-20T20:09:33Z")
I’ve made up a couple of other mnemonic devices people might find useful. “Liaison”: imagine that the a is acting as a go-between for the two i’s. “Discrete” and “discreet”. Not sure which spelling fits your intended meaning? With “discrete”, imagine the t separating the two e’s into discrete units. With “discreet”, imagine the two e’s whispering discreetly together. Childish, but it works for me. And imagine that the school principal is your pal. He probably isn’t, but let’s pretend he is. ---
**Author:** ![Severian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Severian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Severian)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853/40 "2004-05-20T20:47:09Z")
I think you’re all a bit queir. Or is it quier? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spelling-weird-wierd/245853.md?page=3)