# Spend 20 years in Norwegian prison or 2 years in Turkish prison? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 25, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621 "2012-08-25T17:24:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/21 "2012-08-27T11:40:12Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > I could stand to lose some weight, and who knows maybe the beatings will toughen me up, but I gotta ask one thing. Does anyone drop the soap in Turkish prisons, because to me rape really is a sticking point. That depends. Do you look anything like [this](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQSC3W85FF1s0SeYkE-JO21-rvHp6FiuS_wcx2u8c0t9IJID1jvHA)? ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/22 "2012-08-27T17:15:24Z")
I voted for 2 years at Turkish prison. People do not realize how bad it is to be incarcerated, even in a golden-plated prison, and how long time is 20 years. I believe all those who call for longer sentences should spend a month in prison first. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/23 "2012-08-27T18:00:52Z")
2 years in the Turkish prison. And I’m sure there’d be rapes - I’m a woman - and of course beatings and starvation were mentioned in the OP. But to give up 20 years of my life? I’m 36 now. I have so much planned for my next 20 years. I want to live my life and not have anyone take it from me. But I haven’t committed 77 murders, either, or even 1 murder. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/24 "2012-08-27T18:58:49Z")
Turkish prison is only real option. Yes, the Norwegian prison would be much better conditions, but the cost of spending 20 years at this point in my life is just unthinkable. The thing is, on top of the 18 years more I’d spend, that would essentially also mean destroying any reasonable chance of starting a family, progressing my career or getting any number of other things I want to get done. Whereas 2 years would put a dent in those things and put me behind but still leave them all easily achieveable. Those additional costs just make the Norwegian option unthinkable. I also think I’d tend to do a considerably better job of fending off would-be assaulters than most people would because I’m in excellent shape, considerably bigger and stronger, and I’ve done so convincingly in the past. So I’m as concerned about that as others might be. And, well, I can tend to deal with physical deprivation and pain better than other sorts of pain. And, on the same line, I’m probably a bit more vulnerable than most to being confined to a small space like that. Not because I’m claustrophobic but I just like to go outside, be active. Even though I am an introvert and I can happily spend time by myself, even several days at a time, after being snowed into my apartment by myself, which is larger and has more to do than any prison, I had cabin fever after a couple days. That is, it’s one thing to be comfortable spending time alone, it’s something else entirely to HAVE to spend time alone and not have that option. I might consider the norwegian prison if the time was more like 4 or 5 years, as it would at least reduce the impact on my life to, while still considerably more damaging, at least leaves a reasonable possibility of picking up the pieces, but 20 vs. 2 just won’t cut it. And really, I’m quite surprised that so many people would rather spend 10x as much time. Even if the conditions are comparable or better than how some people may be living, there really is a very serious intangible difference between having reasonable living conditions and absolutely knowing you’re confined to it without question for such a long period of time. I really think a lot of people are underestimating that aspect and the impact it would have on their life plans. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/25 "2012-08-28T00:24:40Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > So, I wanted to research Norway before I chose. I found this article about a mass murder (perhaps that is what sparked the question at hand): [http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-08-22/norway-killer-prison/57214936/1](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-08-22/norway-killer-prison/57214936/1) “A mass murder”? Some of you _may_ have heard of this guy. > [@](#): > > Do they have an extradition agreement with the US? (It would sure suck to end up a guest of Haliburton!) Yes, since 1980 at least. 20 years is a long time, Turkish no doubt. But: I wonder how bad they are today? I know French prisons are pretty bad (US-level) Fun fact: you guys remember all the rape in _Midnight Express_? Yeah, it the autobiographical novel, in was all **consensual**. Nobody was raped according to the author’s experiences. The violence was there. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/26 "2012-08-28T00:54:12Z")
To be completely explicit and in a way that I’m not sure other answers have made so clear: In terms of the time itself, I would rather spend twenty years in a Noweigan prison than I would spend two years in a Turkish one. But it’s not an “add on” to my life this stuff. It’s a replacement. And two years while basically ruining my job and career for a bit is HOPEFULLY not going to have my life stuffed up in even ten years time. While if I’m in Norway that’s half way through my sentence. Hell I probably only have a lifespan of sixty five in the best case and I’m twenty five now… twenty years is HALF MY LIFE - and what’s supposed to be the best half - just chucked away. No thanks. P.S. I know some Turkish people, I would at least have some visitors! P.P.S. These thoughts are based on real life concerns. I have a less than 50% but certainly not negligable chance of being sent to prison more or less this time next week. I’m not bothered about the actual prison sentence itself since I know which prison it would be in and know it’s a nice enough place. But I really really really don’t want to lose my job and career. That’s what worries me. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/27 "2012-08-28T03:12:27Z")
Interesting to see the poll still at pretty much a dead heat. For you Turkish choosers (which includes me), what would the 20 have to be to get you to switch? I’m thinking I’d definitely switch at 3, definitely not at 10, not sure in between. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/28 "2012-08-28T03:32:07Z")
How much ass rape in the Turk prison? Need to know before I can decide. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/29 "2012-08-28T04:02:19Z")
Well…I answered the poll before reading your OP. 2 years in a Turkish prison seemed the obvious choice, because I was thinking of a real Turkish prison, not of the imaginary one where you’re barely fed, beaten up every day, etc… Now, assuming a really awful (non-Turkish) prison…hmm…in fact, at first I thought it would be a difficult choice, but it isn’t. Because I’m making it objectively in advance and it’s obvious that in the long term I’ll be better off picking the awful prison. It’s possible that I will wonder every single day during those two years why I didn’t pick the Norwegian jail but it’s still the most sensible choice. It’s a bit like asking : would you rather die or have this extremely painful and very long surgical procedure done? I will pick the surgical procedure, even though I’ll probably scream “JUST STOP IT AND LET ME DIE!” once it will begin. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/30 "2012-08-28T04:18:39Z")
If I’m in prison for 20 years, I’ll miss out on the best years of my life. I’ll take the Turkish prison. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/31 "2012-08-28T04:20:34Z")
Norway for me. Even a week in the jug in Turkey would probably crack my already fragile psyche. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/32 "2012-08-28T04:20:55Z")
> [@Phedre\_no\_Delaunay](#): > > I wouldn’t mind just living in a Norwegian prison. They are so nice. No offense, but you people are nuts! ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/33 "2012-08-28T04:33:10Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Interesting to see the poll still at pretty much a dead heat. > > For you Turkish choosers (which includes me), what would the 20 have to be to get you to switch? I’m thinking I’d definitely switch at 3, definitely not at 10, not sure in between. I chose Turkish prison, and would choose it at 3, 5, or 10 years, compared to 20 in the Norwegian slammer. 15 years in a Turkish prison vs. 20 in a Norwegian? That’s where I’d start to waver. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/34 "2012-08-28T05:12:01Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > I chose Turkish prison, and would choose it at 3, 5, or 10 years, compared to 20 in the Norwegian slammer. 15 years in a Turkish prison vs. 20 in a Norwegian? That’s where I’d start to waver. I start to wawer at 5 years. 10 years in the Turkish hell? No way. I would never recover from that. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/35 "2012-08-28T05:57:36Z")
Um, what are things like in a Turkish prison? I mean really I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/36 "2012-08-28T06:53:03Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > I could stand to lose some weight, and who knows maybe the beatings will toughen me up, but I gotta ask one thing. Does anyone drop the soap in Turkish prisons, because to me rape really is a sticking point. All out of ladles? ---
**Author:** ![Mnemnosyne](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mnemnosyne/32/3347_2.png) [@Mnemnosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mnemnosyne)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/37 "2012-08-28T09:39:47Z")
Big question for me would be whether that ‘access to computers’ includes the internet or not. Cause I know in a lot of places (perhaps most? All?) prisoners aren’t allowed to use the internet. If I have internet access, good food, decent bed, and books to read, I’m not really sure I see it as a huge problem. Throughout much of my life I’ve spent weeks and sometimes several months without leaving my place of residence, so… Without internet access, on the other hand… Mm. I think I might prefer the ‘turkish’ prison. Because twenty years mostly cut off from the world would drive me bananas. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/38 "2012-08-28T13:15:36Z")
I have a baby. If I go to Turkish prison, I can be out before she’s three. If I go to Norwegian prison, I won’t be out until she’s in college. Even if it takes me a year or so of intensive therapy to be a remotely fit parent after the Turkish experience, I still pick that. /ETA: Good hypothetical. It’s one of the more even splits I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/39 "2012-08-28T15:33:11Z")
I’m pretty sure I’m already on the short path, this life, so I’m going with the Turkish prison. My thinking is that no matter how horrific, I can likely recover from a 2 yr exposure. 20yrs? Even in a gilded cage, I would never recover from that. Sages from the dawn of time have stressed repeatedly that ‘time’ is the most valuable treasure. I’ll probably see them in my Turkish prison, I suppose! ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621/40 "2012-08-28T17:19:27Z")
Call me crazy, but I’ll take Norway. > [@](#): > > Founded in 1982, Bastoy Prison is located on a lush, 1-square-mile island of pine trees and rocky coasts, with views of the ocean that are postcard-worthy. It feels more like a resort than jail, and prisoners here enjoy freedoms that would be unthinkable elsewhere. > > It’s the holiday version of Alcatraz. > > There’s a beach where prisoners sunbathe in the summer, plenty of good fishing spots, a sauna and tennis courts. Horses roam gravel roads. Some of the 115 prisoners here – all men and serving time for murder, rape and trafficking heroin, among other crimes – stay in wooden cottages, painted cheery red. They come and go as they please. Others live in “The Big House,” a white mansion on a hill that, on the inside, looks like a college dorm. A chicken lives in the basement, a guard said, and provides eggs for the inmates. > > When you ask the cook what’s for dinner, he offers up menu choices like “fish balls with white sauce, with shrimps” and “everything from chicken con carne to salmon.” > > Plenty of people would pay to vacation in a place like this. Aaaand best of all, when you grow tired of resort life: > [@](#): > > The prisoners are required to check in several times a day so guards can make sure they’re still on the island. Nothing but 1½ miles of seawater stops them from leaving; they’d only have to steal one of the prison’s boats to cross it, several inmates said. > > **An escape would be relatively easy.** > > (snip) This kind of trust may seem shocking or naïve from the outside, but it’s the entire basis for Bastoy’s existence. Overnight, only three or four guards (the prison employs 71 administrative staff, including the guards) stay on the island with this group of people who have been convicted of serious crimes. If guards carried weapons (which they don’t) it might encourage inmates to take up arms, too, he said. > > Further complicating the security situation, some inmates, toward the end of their terms, are allowed to leave the island on a daily ferry to work or attend classes on the mainland. > > **They’re expected to come back on their own free will**. [Welcome to the world’s nicest prison](http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/24/world/europe/norway-prison-bastoy-nicest/index.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spend-20-years-in-norwegian-prison-or-2-years-in-turkish-prison/632621.md?page=3)