# Sperm, egg and consciousness **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 14, 2006, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sperm-egg-and-consciousness/360726 "2006-06-14T19:31:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sperm-egg-and-consciousness/360726/41 "2006-06-15T01:51:23Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] This I agree with. I’m not so sure of your claim that you “control” things, that you are in charge. I don’t think we’re in charge nearly as much as we’d like to believe. Take intelligence, for instance. A lot of people are not as intelligent as you, whatever that means, and cannot make the types of connections you can make. Can you control your mind into not seeing those connections, into not thinking? Some people can’t not be sociopaths, and some, I think, wouldn’t be able to kill someone in cold blood without lots of conditioning. We may fool ourselves into thinking we chose this path, but it is chose for us, by a combination of genetics and environment. [/QUOTE] “Control” might be the wrong word. Even if that sociopath can’t control his actions, there is still someone inside there that is able to, at the very least, observe what is going on as he’s killing someone. I can’t be inside his head and observe this because it is his self, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sperm-egg-and-consciousness/360726/42 "2006-06-15T02:10:33Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Doesn’t the question just boil down to “If things were different, would they be different?” To which I would answer: … Probably. [/QUOTE] As I see it: Every DNA is different from every other. Hence every sperm, every egg, and every fertilized egg is different from any other. When grown sufficiently beyound the very early stages continues to be different from every other one and develops individuality. Even “identical” twins," from a single fertilized egg) are not identical in any respect other that similar characteristics. Each has a unique consciousness, self awareness, and personality. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2006, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sperm-egg-and-consciousness/360726/43 "2006-06-15T02:42:35Z")
[QUOTE=bup] Well, then, there’s no debate. Each sperm cell holds a potential child, different from every other potential one. [/quote] Er, no. Each sperm holds HALF a potential child. One sperm + zero ovum = no child. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2006, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sperm-egg-and-consciousness/360726/44 "2006-06-15T04:04:11Z")
[QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker] “Control” might be the wrong word. Even if that sociopath can’t control his actions, there is still someone inside there that is able to, at the very least, observe what is going on as he’s killing someone. I can’t be inside his head and observe this because it is his self, not mine. [/QUOTE] Okay, observe I buy. Consciousness, I think, is in a sense the ability to observe oneself and one’s thought processes - something animals don’t seem to have. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2006, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sperm-egg-and-consciousness/360726/45 "2006-06-15T13:48:54Z")
Sorry, should have been spermatozoan, not spermatocyte. They come (snrk) earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2006, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sperm-egg-and-consciousness/360726/46 "2006-06-15T14:09:04Z")
[QUOTE=spingears] As I see it: Every DNA is different from every other. Hence every sperm, every egg, and every fertilized egg is different from any other. When grown sufficiently beyound the very early stages continues to be different from every other one and develops individuality. Even “identical” twins," from a single fertilized egg) are not identical in any respect other that similar characteristics. Each has a unique consciousness, self awareness, and personality. [/QUOTE] Sure, but every single thing that ever happened to us, regardless of whether it was a biochemical process or just a mechanical one, _could have happened differently_ - often in a vast multitude of ways that would compound out to an even greater vastness of subsequent possibilities. We are what we are because of everything that has happened; if things had been different, they’d be different, perhaps to the extent of ‘us’ not being here, or being radically different from the way we are now. But the point is that, were that the case, the current version of ‘us’ would not be floating around wishing we existed, any more than the other possible versions of ‘us’ that didn’t come about are doing so. Or to put it another way; deal a hand of cards; you got the cards you got - they could have been different, but this doesn’t deprive all the other possible hands of cards of anything; _something_ had to happen, is all; the other possibilities _didn’t occur_ because the one did. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sperm-egg-and-consciousness/360726/47 "2006-06-16T01:41:04Z")
Man, if the op is getting torn up about _this_, I shudder to think how he’ll handle teenage curfews. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sperm-egg-and-consciousness/360726/48 "2006-06-16T01:48:56Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Man, if the op is getting torn up about _this_, I shudder to think how he’ll handle teenage curfews. [/QUOTE] What are you talking about? It’s quite simple. Teenage sons will have their cars followed whenever they leave the house, and teenage daughters aren’t allowed to date until they are married. And then only under supervision. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sperm-egg-and-consciousness/360726/49 "2006-06-16T02:27:35Z")
Gee, this thread is two days old and no one has brought up chimeras. from Wikipedia > [@](#): > > Chimeras are formed from either four parent cells (two fertilized eggs or early embryos are fused together) or three parent cells (a fertilized egg is fused with an unfertilized egg or a fertilized egg is fused with an extra sperm). Each population of cells keeps its own character and the resulting animal is a mosaic of mis-matched parts. . . .Chimeras can often breed, but the fertility and type of offspring depends on which cell line gave rise to the ovaries or testes. I think mis-matched is a poor choice of words. They’re distinguishable, especially when one gene line produces one color of hair or skin and the other produces another. AFAIK the parts work together just fine. So you have not only two different gene lines (different eggs as well as different sperm), but you have two lines and only one consciousness. My guess is that a consciousness is produced by an active brain of a certain complexity, but that the genes are only relevant in that they produce that brain. It is theoretically possible to have a consciousness created by a brain produced with something besides DNA (alien life form). So you’re not me. But you’re not not me because your genes are different. You’re just not me. Does anyone have any way to bring quantum into this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sperm-egg-and-consciousness/360726.md?page=2)