# Spider-Man 4 & 5 are a go **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 18, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544 "2008-10-18T18:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/1 "2008-10-18T18:23:45Z")
Tobey Maguire and Sam Raimi are in, Kirsten Dunst is still in discussions. [http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/spidermansequels\_blog.html](http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/spidermansequels_blog.html) > [@](#): > > Though there are no details on the story for Spider-Man 4 and 5, Raimi has hinted that the two movies will be connected. “If Tobey and me, and all the producers, like the story for two pictures and Amy wanted to do it, then we would do it. It just hasn’t been written yet.” Screenwriter James Vanderbilt, who wrote Zodiac, has been signed on to write the script. Sony is still casting for the films’ villain, though internet speculation has lead to talk of Dr. Curt Connors, played by Dylan Baker, turning into The Lizard as he did in the comic series. There is even talk of Mary Jane’s astronaut ex-fiancée John Jameson undergoing a transformation into Man-Wolf. Lizard and Man-Wolf? Meh. They wasted Venom in Spider-Man 3, so I guess that’s what they’re stuck with. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/2 "2008-10-18T18:39:37Z")
This series is destined to go where both the 1989 **Batman** and 1979 **Superman** franchises went: right into the crapper. If Raimi has enough self-awareness and is able to resist his greed impulse, he might be able to avoid that fate by reimagining things and going a little in the direction of Nolan’s **Batman**. I have little confidence that he will. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/3 "2008-10-18T18:49:44Z")
Well, as long as it’s not Raimi writing… Jesus the script for SM· was abysmal. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/4 "2008-10-18T20:01:37Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Well, as long as it’s not Raimi writing… > > Jesus the script for SM· was abysmal. SM 1 & 2 were fine. The suck was requisitioned for the 3rd. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/5 "2008-10-18T20:39:55Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > SM 1 & 2 were fine. The suck was requisitioned for the 3rd. That’s what I meant. I made a typo, I wanted to wrote SM3. The first two had actual writers, while the third was written by Raimi and his brother. And although Raimi still had the top notch directing talent, everything about the writing was unbearable: nonsensical plot, boring dialogue… I can only guess that the new guy’s bound to do a better job, even if I didn’t find **Zodiac** ’s script as all that remarkable. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/6 "2008-10-18T20:44:55Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > That’s what I meant. I made a typo, I wanted to wrote SM3. > > The first two had actual writers, while the third was written by Raimi and his brother. And although Raimi still had the top notch directing talent, everything about the writing was unbearable: nonsensical plot, boring dialogue… > > I can only guess that the new guy’s bound to do a better job, even if I didn’t find **Zodiac** ’s script as all that remarkable. Plot? There was a PLOT? Where, exactly, was this imaginary plot you refer to, and why was it absent from the copy they showed at my local cinema? Actually that’s not fair. It’s just that the plot was so very, very dumb that I was obliged to make up a different story to tell in my head. The bit with Gwen Stacey really bothered me, except for her apology to Mary Jane at the end. Of course, in my dream world, Kirsten Dunst appears in the first movie as Gwen (along with, say, Christina Hendricks as Mary Jane). And Gwen actually dies in the final confrontation. This would satisfy the fanboys (including me) and allow a better reason for MJ not to be with Peter until the end of the third movie. Also, Dunst is a fair damsel and all, but red hair doesn’t work for her. ---
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/7 "2008-10-18T21:03:58Z")
I nominate [Carnage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cletus_Kasady) for the villain of both. Bring on the blood and gore! Its time for a super hero movie to get rated R. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/8 "2008-10-18T21:10:28Z")
> [@CutterJohn](#): > > I nominate [Carnage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cletus_Kasady) for the villain of both. Bring on the blood and gore! Its time for a super hero movie to get rated R. Oh, my word no. No, no, no, no, NO!!! Not even if Monica Bellucci, Natalie Portman & Kristen Bell all had extended shower scenes would that be worth seeing. They’d never make it, but I’d rather see a Spider-Man versus Wolverine movie. It’s an easy set-up: some mutant is causing trouble in New York, and the boys have, ah, different ideas on how to handle it. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/9 "2008-10-18T21:19:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > They’d never make it, but I’d rather see a Spider-Man versus Wolverine movie. It’s an easy set-up: some mutant is causing trouble in New York, and the boys have, ah, different ideas on how to handle it. No wait! Spider-Man… versus Wolverine… versus the Punisher! And then they all gang up to fight Spawn. Sweet Christmas, people, wasn’t Venom bad enough?! Do you WANT it to be the early '90s again? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/10 "2008-10-18T21:23:00Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > No wait! Spider-Man… versus Wolverine… versus the Punisher! And then they all gang up to fight Spawn. > > Sweet Christmas, people, wasn’t Venom bad enough?! Do you WANT it to be the early '90s again? It’s not clear how that fight takes more than fourteen seconds and involves anything but the first thing screaming in manly agony for most of it. Okay, okay, no cross-overs. The thing is, the GOOD VILLAINS ARE TAKEN, now that they’ve wasted Sandman & Venom in a flick that should have been Peter versus Harry. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/11 "2008-10-18T21:24:40Z")
Actually, Spider-Man 3 was really good if you only watched the Venom parts of it and fast-forwarded the rest. Yup, those leftover 23 minutes were enjoyable! No more Spider man, please; they’ve lost me forever. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/12 "2008-10-18T21:35:39Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Okay, okay, no cross-overs. The thing is, the GOOD VILLAINS ARE TAKEN, now that they’ve wasted Sandman & Venom in a flick that should have been Peter versus Harry. Au contraire, I think the Sandman demonstrated quite elegantly that Raimi is easily capable of taking even a mediocre supervillain and making him cool. I mean for Christ’s sake, it’s the Sandman! His power… is sand. He’s a bank robber, who turns into sand, and that’s it. And yet Raimi made that watchable. He even managed to retain the striped pullover in the mix, which I would not have thought possible. Before the second movie, I did not have any faith that he could make Doctor Octopus credibly menacing on screeen, and boy was I wrong about that. Obviously if Raimi has some affection for the character, he’s willing to go that extra mile. I’m not convinced that he really wanted Venom as a villain; I believe that decision was pushed on him by the fans, and Emo Parker was Raimi’s way of making fun of that pressure. Allow him to work with characters that he’s interested in, and I bet anything he could make even the Vulture menacing. I’d be happy to see what he could do with the Man-Wolf. Electro would be an impressively deadly foe-- he’s essentially got the same powers as Magneto, although I don’t think even Raimi could make his costume plausible. And I still, STILL haven’t given up hope on Bruce Campbell as Mysterio… Master of E-LEW-SHUN! _Hand gestures_ ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/13 "2008-10-18T21:46:51Z")
:: punches mind-control-radiation-remote-control-thingie irritably :: I think you misunderstand me, Terrifel, most likely because I phrased it poorly. I don’t mean that teh Sandman wasn’t a good victim;I mean that he was wasted in the flick, which really should have just been Peter versus Harry, with Venom thrown in at the very end. The Parker-Osborne conflict was a major part fo the emotional heart of the first two movies, and plotwise is definitely the driving force. The symbiote and Peter’s corruption by same would have made a fine complication in SM 3, and Brock should have gotten the symbiote at the very end. Sandman deserves a separate flick. :: tosses away gizmo :: Stupid second-hand-gadget shop. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/14 "2008-10-18T22:13:29Z")
I want Kraven and Lizard. Kraven’s Last Hunt! Electro…could be good. Spidey really doesn’t have many villains who translate well to the big screen. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/15 "2008-10-18T22:20:01Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > I want Kraven and Lizard. Kraven’s Last Hunt! > > Electro…could be good. Spidey really doesn’t have many villains who translate well to the big screen. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think Electro would work, so long as we lose the dippy costume. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/16 "2008-10-18T22:34:28Z")
There are plenty of good villains left. There’s a lot they could do with Vulture, Mysterio, Electro, Kraven, and the Scorpion. If they insist on throwing in more than one villain per movie, there are more one-note characters like Lizard, Rhino, and Shocker that they can use to pad things out. I think Man-Wolf is a pretty cool idea, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/17 "2008-10-18T22:39:11Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > :: punches mind-control-radiation-remote-control-thingie irritably :: > > :: tosses away gizmo :: > > Stupid second-hand-gadget shop. Hah! Little did you realize, there’s a very good reason why my brain can’t be turned to jelly by your device! And that reason is directly related to the fact that I think the Vulture could be an intimidating movie villain! (–But he could! He seriously could. Think Max Shreck in _Nosferatu_. Vulture’s a scientist whose breakthrough discovery allows him to absorb the life force of others as an energy vampire, giving him augmented strength as a side effect. At first he only feeds off the patients in geriatric care or intensive care wards, reasoning that their lives are near an end anyway and won’t be missed. So he creates a suit that incorporates wings, allowing him to swiftly reach his victims and escape undetected. This could tie into a subplot involving Aunt May in danger! It all works perfectly! Except I haven’t figured out how to address the feather neck boa. Granted, he’s an old man; maybe it’s purely for insulation. To keep the chill away, you know? Or maybe he has swollen thyroid glands. Okay, I’m still working on it.) ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/18 "2008-10-18T23:29:43Z")
I didn’t like Emo-Pete but otherwise enjoyed the third movie, but didn’t care much at all about the second movie, which is the one most tout as the strongest. I think Kraven would be the best villain for the next movie. Add the Lizard in there as the big game that originally draws his attention if we need to have more than one villain for the movie but, personally, I’d prefer we move away from cramming as many enemies into each film as possible. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/19 "2008-10-18T23:41:05Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Plot? There was a PLOT? Where, exactly, was this imaginary plot you refer to, and why was it absent from the copy they showed at my local cinema? Total quality, Sir. Total quality. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![prodicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d9b06d/32.png) [@prodicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/prodicus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544/20 "2008-10-19T00:01:10Z")
Raimi didn’t even want to do a movie with Venom. S-M 3 was originally going to be Sandman and the Vulture. They even had Sir Ben Kingsley lined up to play the role of the Vulture! Supposedly Raimi feels that Venom is a lame character, and I agree with him. Unfortunately, Avi Arad convinced Raimi to make the Venom movie and S-M 3 is what we got. While I agree the Venom story suffered by being crammed into the movie, let’s face it - Venom is a lame character and there is really no way to tell his story without it being lame. I’ve spent a lot of time trying to think of one! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-4-5-are-a-go/468544.md?page=2)