# Spider-Man Homecoming - Seen It (spoilers allowed) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 6, 2017, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587 "2017-07-06T05:52:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/61 "2017-07-10T17:52:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Also, try to be consistent with the spider powers. In one scene he’s holding the Staten Island ferry together with his own strength, and in another he can barely lift a container off of himself. I’m not sure how inconsistent that was. The problem for him with the scene where he’s buried is that he initially experiences a moment of pure panic (and that scene, specifically, was what convinced me of how great a job Holland was doing with that role—I really _bought_ that panic). In my view, Parker wasn’t just overcome by the physical obstacle. He was also still reeling from finding out who his date’s father was, and how he’d been outsmarted. Kind of a realization that he’s still just a kid. But, once he gathered himself, he knew he actually did have the strength (physically and mentally). Also, I thought he was not only lifting the container, but several tons of concrete on top of it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/62 "2017-07-10T18:24:30Z")
The weight of which would be a rounding error compared to the weight of the Staten Island Ferry. And even after he decided he could lift it, he had to struggle like crazy. But that’s a common failing in the Marvel movies. The strength/ability of the characters changes acording to the needs of the plot. And they all seem absolutely invincible, so you never get the sense that they are ever really in danger. In this movie, his helpful female robot sidekick tells him that a fall from the top of the Washington Monument would be fatal. And yet, the battles he survives on the ground involve impacts that would dwarf a mere fall from a height. I know this is kimd of nitpicking a superhero movie, but it does mean we have no sense of how much danger he’s ever in, because the definition of what can harm him seems to change all the time. It takes some of the drama out of the action. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/63 "2017-07-10T18:26:15Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I’m not sure how inconsistent that was. The problem for him with the scene where he’s buried is that he initially experiences a moment of pure panic (and that scene, specifically, was what convinced me of how great a job Holland was doing with that role—I really _bought_ that panic). In my view, Parker wasn’t just overcome by the physical obstacle. He was also still reeling from finding out who his date’s father was, and how he’d been outsmarted. Kind of a realization that he’s still just a kid. But, once he gathered himself, he knew he actually did have the strength (physically and mentally). > > Also, I thought he was not only lifting the container, but several tons of concrete on top of it. Also, he still had a number of webs helping to hold the ferry together, and when he was buried he initially had no leverage to lift. Lastly, he wasn’t lifting the ferry, he was trying to keep it from drifting/falling apart, so he didn’t need to fully overcome the ferry’s weight. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/64 "2017-07-10T18:41:18Z")
This may be getting a little pedantic, but I don’t think you have a sense of the forces involved. The ferry in question weighs over 2,000 tons, and has 7,000 horsepower engines. Not to mention the weight of the 40 cars it carries and the 3,500 people aboard. Someone who can hold that thing together with muscle power after it splits in half should be able to throw a cargo container like it was a softball, or dig himself out from under some rubble as if he were brushing off cookie crumbs. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/65 "2017-07-10T18:55:46Z")
I thought the callback to the iconic lifting himself out of the rubble scene was somewhat cheapened by being merely about self-actualization rather than the desperation to save Aunt May’s life as it was in the original story. But, yes, the fact that Spider-Man emoted as a scared kid really drove home to me the self-sacrifice that is a hallmark of the Spider-Man comics. I’m pretty sure that all the heroes in the Avengers make nothing but macho grunts and yells of rage. But in this movie Peter was under pain and tremendous desperation and distress, and he expressed it in his voice. So, the rubble scene was heartbreaking. So was the recurrence of the them of Spider-Man stretched between two things he’s trying to hold together. Apparently, the thing with Ned was drawn from the Morales Spider-Man, as was Donald Glover’s character, whose reference to a nephew was an illusion to that alternate Spider-Man. You want to talk about wasting Marissa Tomei? I thought for sure Glover, making deals with high-tech weapon merchants, was going to turn out to be Rocket Racer. I haven’t read the Morales Spider-Man comics, but apparently he’s a crook that later becomes an ally. So, maybe that kind of makes him the new Rocket Racer? I didn’t click on what they were suggesting when Michelle announced they should call her MJ. Now understanding, I don’t know how I like it. On the one hand, Mary Jane is a archetype that is not that appealing to me. I liked Peter’s relationship with Felicia Hardy better, and that was a trainwreck happening in the middle of a tornado meeting a cyclone. I like Black-Daria’s-Artist-Friend a lot better. I assume in the next film they’ll find a way that she can say “Face it, Tiger, you just won the Jackpot!” sarcastically. But if they wanted a completely different character, why keep the name? I didn’t have a problem with Nerd Flash Thompson, because I think the archetype he represented had been seriously played out. But anti-glam Mary Jane? Okay, I think the Mary Jane type in our modern world is an obnoxious twit trying to become famous by exploiting herself on YouTube. I would not have liked that at all. So, fuck it. Anti-MJ Jane is now MJ. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/66 "2017-07-10T19:37:24Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This may be getting a little pedantic, but I don’t think you have a sense of the forces involved. The ferry in question weighs over 2,000 tons, and has 7,000 horsepower engines. Not to mention the weight of the 40 cars it carries and the 3,500 people aboard. Someone who can hold that thing together with muscle power after it splits in half should be able to throw a cargo container like it was a softball, or dig himself out from under some rubble as if he were brushing off cookie crumbs. I admit my patience for this sort of inconsistency is running low, helped along mightily by having the heroes fight each other. It shouldn’t matter in the least how determined someone like Captain America is - he can’t possibly hit Iron Man with more force from his muscles alone than, say, the wing of a F22. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/67 "2017-07-10T20:47:34Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This may be getting a little pedantic, but I don’t think you have a sense of the forces involved. The ferry in question weighs over 2,000 tons, and has 7,000 horsepower engines. Not to mention the weight of the 40 cars it carries and the 3,500 people aboard. Someone who can hold that thing together with muscle power after it splits in half should be able to throw a cargo container like it was a softball, or dig himself out from under some rubble as if he were brushing off cookie crumbs. But he couldn’t. The webs were breaking and he was NOT able to hold the ferry together. If Iron Man hadn’t come and saved the day, it would have split apart. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/68 "2017-07-10T21:31:32Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > Apparently, the thing with Ned was drawn from the Morales Spider-Man, as was Donald Glover’s character, whose reference to a nephew was an illusion to that alternate Spider-Man. You want to talk about wasting Marissa Tomei? I thought for sure Glover, making deals with high-tech weapon merchants, was going to turn out to be Rocket Racer. I haven’t read the Morales Spider-Man comics, but apparently he’s a crook that later becomes an ally. So, maybe that kind of makes him the new Rocket Racer? I think he’s actually the Prowler. He lights up when the Shocker v1 mentions something like magnetic climbing claws. > [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > I didn’t click on what they were suggesting when Michelle announced they should call her MJ. Now understanding, I don’t know how I like it. On the one hand, Mary Jane is a archetype that is not that appealing to me. I liked Peter’s relationship with Felicia Hardy better, and that was a trainwreck happening in the middle of a tornado meeting a cyclone. I like Black-Daria’s-Artist-Friend a lot better. I assume in the next film they’ll find a way that she can say “Face it, Tiger, you just won the Jackpot!” sarcastically. But if they wanted a completely different character, why keep the name? I didn’t have a problem with Nerd Flash Thompson, because I think the archetype he represented had been seriously played out. But anti-glam Mary Jane? Okay, I think the Mary Jane type in our modern world is an obnoxious twit trying to become famous by exploiting herself on YouTube. I would not have liked that at all. So, fuck it. Anti-MJ Jane is now MJ. I think people who have too much of a problem with “Michelle” being MJ are people who forgot the 80s homages the movie is doing… The character is a lot like Aly Sheedy from the Breakfast Club (even going to detention by choice). And that character gets a makeover to be “pretty”… Zendaya is an actress, dancer, model, singer… her becoming classic MJ isn’t that far off. I also like the idea that this might be a huge swerve as Peter classically doesn’t even meet MJ until after high school. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/69 "2017-07-10T21:43:01Z")
Wasn’t he using just his arms to try to hold the ferry, which he did manage for even a few seconds? Assuming the enhancements to his physical strength were at least roughly consistent throughout his body, his later attempt to lift building debris with his _legs and back_ should have been fairly easy. I was actually reminded of a comic-book moment where Peter gets trapped under a massive machine early in his career (on researching, I see it was in _Amazing Spider-Man_ #33, Feb 1966, [and I’m not the only one to make the connection](https://www.polygon.com/2017/7/10/15947682/spider-man-homecoming-easter-eggs-comics-my-destiny)). He lifts the weight through sheer determination and such. He’s pretty messed up for the rest of the issue, and Betty Brant turns into a total buzzkill. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/70 "2017-07-10T22:03:17Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I think he’s actually the Prowler. He lights up when the Shocker v1 mentions something like magnetic climbing claws. Am I going to have to run out and actually read these comics? > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I think people who have too much of a problem with “Michelle” being MJ are people who forgot the 80s homages the movie is doing… The character is a lot like Aly Sheedy from the Breakfast Club (even going to detention by choice). > And that character gets a makeover to be “pretty”… Zendaya is an actress, dancer, model, singer… her becoming classic MJ isn’t that far off. The Breakfast Club did come to mind, but she reminded me more of what’s-her-name from Daria, possibly because of the way she dressed and her being an artist. And Aly Sheedy was typed as the “basket case”. That’s not the MJ of this film. She has the charms of a cynical teenager without the shit that makes you want to slap them back to infancy and try this growing up shit again. I had never heard of Zendaya, but she’s apparently a big deal. A Google Image search reveals a model who looks like a Mary Jane type in many pictures, but she’s very different as presented in the movie itself. Her look in the movie would appear to be off brand for her. ---
**Author:** ![HowSoonIsThen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@HowSoonIsThen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HowSoonIsThen)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/71 "2017-07-11T00:11:54Z")
The detention scene made me think of the Breakfast Club which I’m sure was intentional. Personally, though, I’m a bit over the character who hangs around making emotionless sarcastic comments. And this is coming from a massive Daria fan. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/72 "2017-07-11T00:33:09Z")
And of course, running through the backyards was a callback to Ferris Buehler’s Day Off, which was showing on a TV in the background just in case the audience didn’t get the reference. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/73 "2017-07-11T01:07:42Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > But he couldn’t. The webs were breaking and he was NOT able to hold the ferry together. If Iron Man hadn’t come and saved the day, it would have split apart. I agree with this. Peter _failed_ to hold the ferry together, even with the suit. This informs the later scene when he’s buried under tons of rubble, without the suit. Tom Holland really sold Peter’s panic and sense of helplessness, using just his voice. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/74 "2017-07-11T01:48:06Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > But he couldn’t. The webs were breaking and he was NOT able to hold the ferry together. If Iron Man hadn’t come and saved the day, it would have split apart. and to be even more pedantic - as he pulled the top, the bottom should have started going outwards. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/75 "2017-07-11T06:02:37Z")
> [@simster](#): > > and to be even more pedantic - as he pulled the top, the bottom should have started going outwards. Yeah. No way around that. Are you at all consoled by the fact that, unlike the writers of Force Awakens, these guys did not turn out to be stunningly unaware of how massive a galaxy is? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/76 "2017-07-13T01:26:08Z")
I’ve only scanned the thread because I haven’t seen the movie, but I just discovered that the “Punk on the Bus” from Star Trek 4 does a cameo as “Punk on the Street”, still carrying his boom box. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/77 "2017-07-13T05:22:36Z")
The wife and I saw it last Saturday and loved it. On a side note, the best friend is from Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/78 "2017-07-19T15:14:44Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I also like the idea that this might be a huge swerve as Peter classically doesn’t even meet MJ until after high school. The Raimi movies have Peter know MJ since they were little kids, so not that big of a swerve. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/79 "2017-07-19T18:46:22Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > Am I going to have to run out and actually read these comics? The movie was basically a Miles Morales movie starring Peter Parker as Miles Morales. If you dug the movie, you’ll probably dig the Mile Morales Spider-Man. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587/80 "2017-07-19T21:17:03Z")
Does Vulture have the lowest death count of any main villain in the MCU? There was only the one bad guy he killed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-man-homecoming-seen-it-spoilers-allowed/790587.md?page=5)