# Spider solitaire **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 29, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524 "2008-01-29T22:54:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/1 "2008-01-29T22:54:24Z")
I’m pretty good at the 4-suit game, winning nearly 60% of the games - and I’d win more if I could save the game under Vista without exitting - but I’m wondering: are all the games presented winnable? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/2 "2008-01-29T23:13:17Z")
How the heck do you win 60% of the games with 4 suits? I think my win average is about 1/10 of that. I must be doing something wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/3 "2008-01-29T23:32:36Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] How the heck do you win 60% of the games with 4 suits? I think my win average is about 1/10 of that. I must be doing something wrong. [/QUOTE] Yeah, even with taking back all the turns to find the optimal cards to overturn I’d be nowhere near that. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/4 "2008-01-30T00:12:52Z")
It can take over 1500 moves - I don’t think I’ve cracked 2000 yet. One trick is to move only part of a set and not the whole set. Another, more critical, objective is two blank columns. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/5 "2008-01-30T00:40:44Z")
That’s way way more time than I’d care to spend. ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/6 "2008-01-30T02:10:28Z")
It’s kind of hard to prove that every possible deal of a computer game is winnable. But proving that they’re not is usually much easier – just come up with a deal that’s not winnable. In this case, imagine one where the last row of cards to be dealt up is all, say, Kings and Jacks. The kings can’t go anywhere because there are no empty spaces. The jacks can’t go anywhere because they don’t play on Kings. Hence, you can do nothing with that deal and you lose. Whether all the games that your version of the software presents you have been pre-determined to be winnable can vary – there are solitaire programs out there that let you set ‘winnable deals only’ as an option. That’s fairly non-standard, though and it would most likely be a menu option in the software, not a default. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/7 "2008-01-30T02:12:59Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] How the heck do you win 60% of the games with 4 suits? I think my win average is about 1/10 of that. I must be doing something wrong. [/QUOTE] I love Spider, but this is more in line with my experience. 60%? WTF? There are games I’ve gotten pretty far on and then get hung up–those I recognize are likely winnable if I had made different moves. But there are plenty of times I can’t for the life of me see any way to win certain set-ups. At least not given the parameters I play under. Are there variations to allow an easier game? ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/8 "2008-01-30T03:34:03Z")
I find that number fairly surprising, as well. SolSuite lists the chance of winning a straight game of Spider at about 5%. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/9 "2008-01-30T04:18:16Z")
Hot damn! I stay solidly around 25% for two suits and I play a LOT. You are a Spider Solitare genius 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/10 "2008-01-30T04:21:48Z")
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ] Hot damn! I stay solidly around 25% for two suits and I play a LOT. You are a Spider Solitare genius 🙂 [/QUOTE] Word. I have never won a four-suit game (admittedly, I get so frustrated, I don’t bother trying much) and my highest score in a two suit game is 1194. I can’t even break 1200 and my win rate hovers around 20%. I suck. ☹ Help? ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/11 "2008-01-30T05:16:22Z")
I only play 4-suit and I probably win 25% of my games. I don’t restart games if I lose and might win more if I did. I just play to kill time while letting some long-running junk run in the background. I find 60% unlikely but not impossible. I generally play about 500 moves–never look at the points, and don’t really count how many I win, so 25% is a WAG at best. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/12 "2008-01-30T10:13:07Z")
[QUOTE=jacquilynne] It’s kind of hard to prove that every possible deal of a computer game is winnable. But proving that they’re not is usually much easier – just come up with a deal that’s not winnable. In this case, imagine one where the last row of cards to be dealt up is all, say, Kings and Jacks. The kings can’t go anywhere because there are no empty spaces. The jacks can’t go anywhere because they don’t play on Kings. Hence, you can do nothing with that deal and you lose. [/QUOTE] The theory is true but your example is not: you just need to make sure that you end up with Queens where the Jacks will lie, so you move the stack of Q+J onto a King. I’m well aware that you can create an unwinnable game - you just repeat your example for each deal. But I’m asking if the Spider Solitaire can do this: will it **present** an unwinnable game? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/13 "2008-01-30T10:22:42Z")
It’s actually [58%](http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r139/quartz-quill/?action=view¤t=solitairestatistics.jpg) (pic). Note that this is a recent reinstallation of Vista so I haven’t played many games. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Mood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@Blue\_Mood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Mood)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/14 "2008-01-30T20:43:51Z")
[QUOTE=NoCoolUserName] I find 60% unlikely but not impossible. [/QUOTE] I win more than 80% but it’s because I cheat. I undo to my heart’s content and save before dealing in case I make a mistake - then I can revert to the saved game. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/15 "2008-01-30T20:56:34Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] It’s actually [58%](http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r139/quartz-quill/?action=view¤t=solitairestatistics.jpg) (pic). Note that this is a recent reinstallation of Vista so I haven’t played many games. [/QUOTE] Was anyone else tempted to hit the reset button in the screenshot? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/16 "2008-01-30T21:27:23Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] I’m well aware that you can create an unwinnable game - you just repeat your example for each deal. But I’m asking if the Spider Solitaire can do this: will it **present** an unwinnable game? [/QUOTE] As I said, generally solitaire games that have ‘present only winnable deals’ as an option if they offer it at all. If you haven’t set ‘present only winnable deals’ in your software, there’s a very low chance that it’s doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/17 "2008-01-31T10:19:35Z")
[QUOTE=Blue Mood] I win more than 80% but it’s because I cheat. I undo to my heart’s content and save before dealing in case I make a mistake - then I can revert to the saved game. [/QUOTE] In the Vista version, you can undo a deal but not save. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/18 "2008-01-31T11:11:03Z")
[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey] Was anyone else tempted to hit the reset button in the screenshot? 😃 [/QUOTE] Rotter! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/19 "2008-01-31T13:26:49Z")
OK, I am astounded by the claims of win percentages here. I win maybe 25% of my two-suited games. I tried a 4 suited game once. Once. What is the secret? When does it make sense to play a red card onto a black card? I’m sure that is where I am going wrong. Obviously it is always good to uncover a new card, but is it worth screwing up a long string of same-suited cards to do so? ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524/20 "2008-01-31T14:37:32Z")
[QUOTE=Blue Mood] I win more than 80% but it’s because I cheat. I undo to my heart’s content and save before dealing in case I make a mistake - then I can revert to the saved game. [/QUOTE] OK, I stand\* corrected. Clearly %60 is not that unlikely. 🙂 - Actually I sit corrected. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-solitaire/435524.md?page=2)