# Spider Speed vs. People Speed **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 25, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017 "2009-10-25T00:58:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/21 "2009-10-27T03:07:03Z")
> [@arachnologus](#): > > You don’t need to be an expert to know what part of the country you live in. Hobo spiders and brown recluses both have a quite limited distribution. See my pages: > [Spider Myths | Burke Museum](http://www.washington.edu/burkemuseum/spidermyth/myths/brownrecluse.html) > [Spider Myths | Burke Museum](http://www.washington.edu/burkemuseum/spidermyth/myths/hobo.html) > If you’re outside their range, you don’t have them, despite all your ignorant friends who think they know someone who was bitten by one. Even within their range, there are many places where these species are vanishingly rare (for example, I haven’t seen a real hobo spider from Seattle all year). Black widows (real ones) don’t turn up indoors that often, though the false black widow is a common house spider. > > In any case, real spider bites (the “I didn’t see what bit me so it was a spider” type don’t count!) are quite rare events, and spiders that happen to be toxic to humans are not any more likely to bite on that account. The danger to humans from spiders is so tiny there is no way that it justifies all the fear and loathing (which is not instinctive, BTW – the smaller the kid, the less likely to be fearful – it’s learned!). Where are those little Colorado dots of Hobos? Fort Collins? Loveland? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/22 "2009-10-27T03:29:46Z")
> [@Surly\_Chick](#): > > And thankyoueversomuch for telling me it’s just the tip of the iceberg! Karma be damned - the exterminator came today and sprayed the entire 2000+ sq. ft. house (plus the cellar and attic). And the exterminator used what chemical(s)? Chances are the chemical(s) may have a more long-term detrimental effect to your own health and well-being than if you let the critters alone. ---
**Author:** ![Surly\_Chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Surly\_Chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surly_Chick)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/23 "2009-10-27T04:01:48Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > And the exterminator used what chemical(s)? Chances are the chemical(s) may have a more long-term detrimental effect to your own health and well-being than if you let the critters alone. Don’t care. I’d rather die than live with those skittering, nasty, evil, lurking creatures that are just waiting to pounce on me when my back is turned. The exterminator said whatever she (yes, it was a woman) used was harmless to people and pets once it dried (after about three hours). When I got back from work there was no aroma and I haven’t seen any of the bastards this evening, praise Baby Jesus. Frankly, the spiders were so huge I wouldn’t have cared if she used DDT… ---
**Author:** ![arachnologus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dc4da7/32.png) [@arachnologus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arachnologus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/24 "2009-10-27T04:25:44Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Where are those little Colorado dots of Hobos? Fort Collins? Loveland? Boulder, primarily – that’s the only place in CO with a significant population, to date. Incidentally, if you want a Colorado spider specimen identified, I hereby reveal to you that there’s a [Colorado Spider Survey](http://www.dmns.org/spiders/default.aspx). ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/25 "2009-10-27T04:27:33Z")
> [@Surly\_Chick](#): > > Frankly, the spiders were so huge I wouldn’t have cared if she used DDT… Are we talking the size of a silver dollar here or a hockey puck? Where do you live again? :nervously checks the walls and ceilings: ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/26 "2009-10-27T04:44:15Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > And the exterminator used what chemical(s)? Chances are the chemical(s) may have a more long-term detrimental effect to your own health and well-being than if you let the critters alone. Can we see some evidence for this claim? I mean the claim that chemicals used by a qualified pest controller have a greater chance of producing a detrimental effect to health and well-being than living constantly with a source of phobia? ---
**Author:** ![Surly\_Chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Surly\_Chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surly_Chick)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/27 "2009-10-27T04:46:38Z")
Two of them were the size of silver dollars, two the size of half dollars and one was the size of Montana. I swear, I could actually _ **hear** _ it walk across the hardwood floor. I live in southern Maine. I just moved here and had anyone told me about the size of the spiders waiting to terrorize me, I would have seriously reconsidered it. And **arachnologus,** I can not remember ever **not** being afraid of spiders. One of my earliest memories is of screaming for my daddy to come and kill one in my room. No one else in my family is frightened of them so I don’t think it was a learned response. Rationally, I **know** they’re beneficial evil little bastards but I just can’t help myself. See spider, smash spider, run away… ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_Astronaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bad\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/28 "2009-10-27T07:03:55Z")
> [@arachnologus](#): > > The danger to humans from spiders is so tiny there is no way that it justifies all the fear and loathing (which is not instinctive, BTW – the smaller the kid, the less likely to be fearful – it’s learned!). Learned from where? It seems there is a pretty good correlation between animals that people are commonly afraid of and animals that would have posed a significant risk of death during the bulk of human history. The crack researchers at [about.com](http://psychology.about.com/od/phobias/p/commonphobias.htm) list spiders, snakes and dogs among the top 10 phobias (I’m too lazy to look for a better cite). Dog phobia I could see being mainly related to actual negative experiences in early childhood. However, in many regions it’s rare to even see a snake outside of a petstore. Spiders are around in most areas but they don’t do anything that would make people dislike them. Yet, many people can’t look at snakes and spiders without seeing pure bloodthirsty evil. For this reason I still suspect it is an instinctual behaviour. Any info to change my mind? ---
**Author:** ![arachnologus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dc4da7/32.png) [@arachnologus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arachnologus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/29 "2009-10-27T10:54:47Z")
> [@Bad\_Astronaut](#): > > Learned from where? > > * * * > > Spiders are around in most areas but they don’t do anything that would make people dislike them. Yet, many people can’t look at snakes and spiders without seeing pure bloodthirsty evil. For this reason I still suspect it is an instinctual behaviour. Any info to change my mind? Learned from other people, that’s where. I’ve given many spider programs to first-grade classes. Only a few kids in these classes are really afraid, and the vast majority are very willing to hold a live spider once they’ve seen their peers do so. Very often, in these classes there’s one kid who thinks it’s funny to yell and scream when he touches a spider and tries to startle the other kids into doing the same. Gradually, from this type of antisocial kid, from fearful relatives and teachers, and from Hollywood, the kids pick up spider fears. At each grade level the percentage of fearful ones is higher until by 6th grade only a few kids in the class have completely escaped it. At some point in the process, cultural differences between girl-culture and boy-culture set in and the girls start to get it more than the boys - but the boys get plenty, and the sex difference is not really that marked among kids. Some people lose their fears as adults, but it seems to be predominantly men who do so, probably because adult-male culture encourages bravery more than adult-female culture does. However, among professional arachnologists, the sex ratio is practically 50:50, which shows that women are just as likely as men to go all the way to full-time enjoyment of spiders. In fact, this seems to be more the case in arachnology than in very many other scientific fields. It definitely makes arachnological meetings more fun! 🙂 Only a small percentage of the fearful are full-fledged phobics. These latter tend to attribute their fears to some specific incident in their childhood. But I have no idea whether that’s really correct, or maybe they’re just reasoning after the fact based on psychobabble they’ve heard. Check out this article: Hadley, Tad N. 1988. Entomophobia: The case for Miss Muffet. Bulletin of the Entomological Society of America 34(2): 64-69. These days, the success rate for psychotherapy of arachnophobes seems to be pretty high, due in part to use of newer technologies. When I encounter someone whose arachnophobia is serious enough to really cramp their style, I often suggest they consider therapy as a way to get on with their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/30 "2009-10-27T14:36:18Z")
First of all, props to **arachnologus** for being a beacon of enlightenment and apparently a genuine source of spidey sense. The Dope is what it is in large part due to the subject matter experts who stray in and stay. That said… > [@Bad\_Astronaut](#): > > Learned from where? It’s an ancestral terror arising out of an ancient genetic memory formed long before interstellar humanity colonized the young earth. Our ancient enemy pursued us through the cosmos, frequently counter-colonizing us on the same planets. Sometimes they prevailed and eradicated us from one world, sometimes we prevailed and reduced them to the terrifying charicatures of themselves that we on earth have to deal with. I’m sure, somewhere, planetary conditions favored the chelicerates and humans were reduced to tiny, fleshy nuissances that drive them gorge themselves to obesity in much the same way that chickens exact their unwilling vengence upon us. Contrary to what others would have us believe, it is the 'phobes who are the more in tune with the 8-legged beast’s true nature and origin. Those who “overcome” their phobia do so at their own peril. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_Astronaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bad\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/31 "2009-10-27T16:47:24Z")
> [@arachnologus](#): > > Check out this article: > Hadley, Tad N. 1988. Entomophobia: The case for Miss Muffet. Bulletin of the Entomological Society of America 34(2): 64-69. Oddly, my university doesn’t seem to have access to this journal, but I found most of the article on Google Books (of all places). I realize full blown phobias are not that common, I was thinking more of common fears. Anyway the article classifies the origin of insect fears as the subject of debate and has this to say about one theory: > [@](#): > > The prepotency theory (Marks 1969) and the similar preparedness theory (Seligman 1971) of simple phobias suggest that insect and spider phobias are derived from innate common fears of naturally occurring and potentially harmful objects. This biological viewpoint states that fear of these organisms conferred a selective survival advantage to pretechnological humans and that phobic tendencies develop from these remnants of adaptive fears. A substantial amount of observational and experimental data exist to support this idea (Sturgis and Scott 1984). In addition, a fear of insects and spiders… Unfortunately the next 4 pages are not available so I can’t see if the authors have anything more to say about this theory, or what other theories have been proposed. As for your observations in children of different ages, it still seems plausible that the instinctual fear would appear at some stage of childhood development. A really interesting piece of data would be a cross-cultural study of insect fears or phobias. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/32 "2009-10-27T17:32:04Z")
> [@arachnologus](#): > > Black widows (real ones) don’t turn up indoors that often, though the false black widow is a common house spider. How can you tell the difference? I found a spider in my garage a few years ago that I was pretty sure was a BW - it was medium-sized, shiny and black with a red hour-glass shape underneath. I squashed it good. ---
**Author:** ![arachnologus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dc4da7/32.png) [@arachnologus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arachnologus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/33 "2009-10-28T03:44:06Z")
> [@Bad\_Astronaut](#): > > [speaking of the Hadley article on entomophobia]. . . . .Unfortunately the next 4 pages are not available so I can’t see if the authors have anything more to say about this theory, or what other theories have been proposed. > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > A really interesting piece of data would be a cross-cultural study of insect fears or phobias. I had a brief look for my copy of the article but it’s buried somewhere. To the best of my recollection, much of it is devoted to making an even stronger case for the nurture vs. nature theory. I’m not sure if anyone has made the cross-cultural study you suggest, which would indeed be interesting. (Hey, any psych students out there in search of a thesis? :)) But one piece of info is very suggestive. There are cultures (notably, the Lao people and some other groups in southeast Asia, plus a number of New Guinea cultural groups, and several elsewhere) that treat insects and spiders – recognizable ones – as a standard item of diet. Street sellers of fried grasshoppers, tarantula-kebab and other delicacies do a thriving business in Bangkok and elsewhere. I hardly think they could make a living in any American city that lacked a large Southeast Asian community. So there are indeed cultural differences! Properly cooked arthropods are indeed very tasty, as I can attest since I know David Gordon the “[bug chef.](http://www.davidgeorgegordon.com/)” But I have yet to try one that tasted like chicken. 🙂 [QUOTE=Skammer] How can you tell the difference? I found a spider in my garage a few years ago that I was pretty sure was a BW - it was medium-sized, shiny and black with a red hour-glass shape underneath. I squashed it good. [/QUOTE] You might have had a real black widow in the garage if you live in a place where they’re really abundant, like southern CA. The easiest way to tell a false widow without a microscope is just look at the spider in a nice strong light and compare it to something really black (like a licorice jelly bean). If, **by comparison** , the spider turns out to be more of a very dark brownish purple, then it’s a false widow. Real black widows (with rare exceptions) are really black. While it’s true that the false widows also lack the true red hourglass, practically everyone who thinks they’ve found a black widow, sees that hourglass whether it’s there or not – suggestion is very powerful. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/34 "2009-10-30T02:56:23Z")
> [@arachnologus](#): > > I’m not sure if anyone has made the cross-cultural study you suggest, which would indeed be interesting. (Hey, any psych students out there in search of a thesis? :)) But one piece of info is very suggestive. There are cultures (notably, the Lao people and some other groups in southeast Asia, plus a number of New Guinea cultural groups, and several elsewhere) that treat insects and spiders – recognizable ones – as a standard item of diet. **Street sellers of fried grasshoppers, tarantula-kebab and other delicacies do a thriving business in Bangkok and elsewhere.** I hardly think they could make a living in any American city that lacked a large Southeast Asian community. So there are indeed cultural differences! Actually, bug vendors are not that ubiquitous on the streets of Bangkok. Most Thais don’t eat bugs. That’s mostly Northeasterners, and the other Thais tend to look down on them for that. My Bangkok-born wife shudders at the thought of popping any sort of insect into her mouth. When you do see bug vendors, you can be sure it’s an area frequented by people from the Northeast. For example, most bargirls in the Western-oriented bars – as opposed to the bar areas catering to Japanese or Thai men, who like the lighter-skinned northern beauties – are from the Northeast, and there’s always a bug vendor or two in the neighborhood. Most construction workers are parapatetic Northeasterners who travel from job to job, and so you might see a bug cart near a construction site. But even then, I’ve not seen many tarantulas on offer, if any. That seems to be more in Cambodia. Southeast Asia is a place of very disparate cultures. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/35 "2009-10-30T06:58:49Z")
Could deal with the spider population by getting some [house](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scutigera_coleoptrata) [centipedes](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=house%20centipede&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi)! :eek: CMC fnord! Huge arguments in my house over the death penalty for 'pideys and 'pedes. I’m much happier seeing them than their prey; bedbugs, termites, cockroaches, silverfish, ants, and other household arthropods. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/36 "2009-10-30T14:35:50Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > First of all, props to **arachnologus** for being a beacon of enlightenment and apparently a genuine source of spidey sense. The Dope is what it is in large part due to the subject matter experts who stray in and stay. That said… > > It’s an ancestral terror arising out of an ancient genetic memory formed long before interstellar humanity colonized the young earth. Our ancient enemy pursued us through the cosmos, frequently counter-colonizing us on the same planets. Sometimes they prevailed and eradicated us from one world, sometimes we prevailed and reduced them to the terrifying charicatures of themselves that we on earth have to deal with. I’m sure, somewhere, planetary conditions favored the chelicerates and humans were reduced to tiny, fleshy nuissances that drive them gorge themselves to obesity in much the same way that chickens exact their unwilling vengence upon us. Contrary to what others would have us believe, it is the 'phobes who are the more in tune with the 8-legged beast’s true nature and origin. Those who “overcome” their phobia do so at their own peril. I knew it! KNEW IT! I had suspected, but now I know it is true. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017/37 "2009-10-30T17:57:12Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > I knew it! KNEW IT! I had suspected, but now I know it is true. Shall I put you on my mailing list? 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spider-speed-vs-people-speed/515017.md?page=1)