# Spinoff of the manual transmission thread: Cars with paddles **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 31, 2008, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367 "2008-03-31T12:08:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367/21 "2008-04-02T17:26:23Z")
It’s not snark. Anectodal is ‘your experience vs. mine’. I stated that the vast majority of vehicles made have an automatic transmission. I did not restrict it to geographic area. Every single car you encounter may have a stick and it won’t invalidate the statement ‘the vast majority of cars have automatic transmissions,’ even if every single rental agency in the UK has 'em. It helps to keep in mind that annual light automobile production is roughly 65.5 million cars. I’m currently looking for the statistics to back that up, but what I’m finding is from companies that make a living gathering statistics and I don’t think it’s worth £750 to end the debate. (source: [http://www.supplierbusiness.com/reports\_toc.asp?id=47](http://www.supplierbusiness.com/reports_toc.asp?id=47) ) ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367/22 "2008-04-02T18:02:50Z")
From the New York Times, today, actually. Link: [Dad, What’s a Clutch? Well, at One Time…](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9404E5D7143CF93BA15756C0A9679C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all) > [@](#): > > But by last year, according to Ward’s Automotive Reports, manual transmissions accounted for just 8.7 percent of cars made in the United States, down from 12.4 percent in 1996. > [@](#): > > The dominance of automatic transmissions is an American phenomenon, Mr. Kester of General Motors said. They have captured only 12 percent of the European market. So there you go. ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367/23 "2008-04-02T18:13:26Z")
Erk. The article is from 2001. I read the date off the header and not the dateline. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367/24 "2008-04-03T06:34:23Z")
[QUOTE=Tenebras] From the New York Times, today, actually. Link: [Dad, What’s a Clutch? Well, at One Time…](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9404E5D7143CF93BA15756C0A9679C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all) So there you go. [/QUOTE] Thank you - my point exactly. Europeans, in my experience, disdain automatic cars as ‘lazy driving’. **Unintentionally Blank** - the snark was your comment “Struggling with the definition of anecdotal?” I don’t need a definition of anecdotal. And your own cites, plus more recently quoted cites, prove my point - Europeans don’t buy a majority of automatic transmission cars. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367/25 "2008-04-03T11:13:32Z")
[QUOTE=GomiBoy] Thank you - my point exactly. Europeans, in my experience, disdain automatic cars as ‘lazy driving’. **Unintentionally Blank** - the snark was your comment “Struggling with the definition of anecdotal?” I don’t need a definition of anecdotal. And your own cites, plus more recently quoted cites, prove my point - Europeans don’t buy a majority of automatic transmission cars. [/QUOTE] I completely agree. I was not aware that my experiences were American in nature. I’ve seen (from an apparently american context) that all of the major sports car manufacturers have made available ‘flappy paddle’ transmissions, that pretty much 100% of Trucks purchased (for towing and hauling purposes) are automatics, that all of the pure-sports racing I’ve seen (even European-centric ones like rally cross) use sequential shifting. From an economic standpoint, I could see a manufacturer not offering the less expensive manual, in favor of having a single part number to contend with. From a mild curiosity standpoint, and following your statement that America isn’t everybody, neither is the UK and Europe. I’d be interested in seeing what the preferences of the rest of the planet are. I suspect 2nd and third world countries would prefer sticks based on price and simplicity. The more rapidly developing parts of Asia? I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367/26 "2008-04-03T11:48:04Z")
[QUOTE=Unintentionally Blank] I completely agree. I was not aware that my experiences were American in nature. I’ve seen (from an apparently american context) that all of the major sports car manufacturers have made available ‘flappy paddle’ transmissions, that pretty much 100% of Trucks purchased (for towing and hauling purposes) are automatics, that all of the pure-sports racing I’ve seen (even European-centric ones like rally cross) use sequential shifting. From an economic standpoint, I could see a manufacturer not offering the less expensive manual, in favor of having a single part number to contend with. From a mild curiosity standpoint, and following your statement that America isn’t everybody, neither is the UK and Europe. I’d be interested in seeing what the preferences of the rest of the planet are. I suspect 2nd and third world countries would prefer sticks based on price and simplicity. The more rapidly developing parts of Asia? I dunno. [/QUOTE] Europeans seem (from personal conversations I’ve been in, as well as auto magazine articles and the ever-popular Jeremy Clarkson) to dislike automatics because they’re usually less fuel efficient, as well as less powerful or at least less responsive to power needs - most Europeans seem to enjoy (if not require due to road quality and size as well as traffic levels) more fine control over power and acceleration than an automatic provides. A small increase in fuel efficiency means a whole lot when gas is over $6 per gallon. And this is anecdotal but in my experience in traveling through a decent number of 3rd world countries, mostly Central America and Mexico, ME and N. Africa as well as some in Asia, is that manual transmissions seem more common; I would think this is because they’re easier and cheaper to repair and maintain than automatics as you say. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367/27 "2008-04-03T18:51:07Z")
I guess I’m one of those 3%-ers Americans that not only _prefer_ a true manual (foot operated clutch and gearshift lever), but refuse to own any form of automatic, I still consider “manuamatics” automatic transmissions While my Ion was being repaired, I had a Chevy Malibu rental with a “manumatic”, and I _HATED_ it, even with manually tap-selecting the gear I wanted, it still had the characteristic delay of an automatic, and I swear that I could _feel_ the torque converter slipping constantly, wasting perfectly good power, it felt slow, slushy, and imprecise, oh how i _loathed_ that car Strangely enough, when I was shopping earlier for a replacement for my Neon, I actually contemplated dropping my manual-only mantra, after all, how bad could an automatic really be? for me, the three weeks in the Malibu reinforced my beliefs, for _my_ needs, an automatic, even one with a manual mode, was intolerable, I couldn’t see spending 8+ years behind the wheel of an automatic, it’d be torture after three weeks in that sludgebox, getting back in my manual Ion was so sweet 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367/28 "2008-04-03T19:27:21Z")
I’m pretty open-minded about it. I _LOVE_ my 6 speed Subie…I also love my high-strung, ratchet shift, balls-out slushbox in the beater Vette. Once in awhile, I don’t mind driving the wife’s automatic. The DSG transmissions Audi (and a few others) produce seem like a _really_ good compromise. For those that don’t know, they’re effectively two transmissions in one case. gears 1-3-5 and gears 2-4-6, with two clutches. While one gear is active, the other gear is setting itself up for engagement. (see [How DSG Works - Understanding Dual-clutch Transmission](http://cars.about.com/od/thingsyouneedtoknow/a/ag_howDSGworks.htm)) My personal opinion is this: If I ever feel tired using a clutch in traffic, I’d better start cutting down on the donuts and exercise a bit harder. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367/29 "2008-04-03T19:42:59Z")
[QUOTE=Unintentionally Blank] From a mild curiosity standpoint, and following your statement that America isn’t everybody, neither is the UK and Europe. I’d be interested in seeing what the preferences of the rest of the planet are. I suspect 2nd and third world countries would prefer sticks based on price and simplicity. The more rapidly developing parts of Asia? I dunno. [/QUOTE] Everybody or not, America buys nearly as many cars than the rest of the world [combined](http://www.scotiacapital.com/English/bns_econ/bns_auto.pdf). At least, until the Chinese catch up. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367/30 "2008-04-04T08:40:02Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Everybody or not, America buys nearly as many cars than the rest of the world [combined](http://www.scotiacapital.com/English/bns_econ/bns_auto.pdf). At least, until the Chinese catch up. [/QUOTE] SUre, and since the majority of cars are purchased in the US and have automatics, then by logic the majority of all cars sold by number are automatics. However, does not change the point that fewer automatics are sold outside the US. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367/31 "2008-04-04T10:04:16Z")
> [@](#): > > The more rapidly developing parts of Asia? I dunno. At least in this part, it’s very hard to find a manual, even in sports cars. We looked at probably 30 Toyota Supras, and not one had a stick (very disapointing). There are some stick shift skylines, but mostly they’re autos. It took us a while to find cars here. I actually like the clutch, and while I guess a manumatic is better than an auto, I’d rather have a real manual. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367/32 "2008-04-04T10:13:25Z")
[QUOTE=Renee] At least in this part, it’s very hard to find a manual, even in sports cars. We looked at probably 30 Toyota Supras, and not one had a stick (very disapointing). There are some stick shift skylines, but mostly they’re autos. It took us a while to find cars here. I actually like the clutch, and while I guess a manumatic is better than an auto, I’d rather have a real manual. [/QUOTE] Interesting - I would’ve thought Japan would have fewer automatics. It seemed to when I was there in 1995 anyways, although I know that was a while ago and far from a comprehensive sample… You learn something new everyday. ETA - man what crappy writing. Meant to say that Japan seemed to have fewer automatics than manuals when I was there. Bad brain day, coffee not kicking in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spinoff-of-the-manual-transmission-thread-cars-with-paddles/443367.md?page=1)