# Spiritual folk: Is praying for someone to die acceptable? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587 "2011-08-22T00:07:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/21 "2011-08-23T04:30:23Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > There are certain practicalities in a utilitarian worldview that I draw upon for my own morality. Sometimes it would be a net benefit for someone to die, and I think it would be okay to curse such a person in such circumstances. Like to wish death on a horrible dictator who is starving his country and killing vocal opposition to his rule? That’s perfectly fine with me. Although you may be harming yourself if you feel guilty for wishing harm on another person, that’s not anyone else’s business as long as you don’t externalize the harm you cause yourself. > > Of course, there’s a difference between wishing evil on an evil person, picking up a shotgun and killing that person, or inciting others to pick up their shotguns and kill that person. And as I’m an atheist, to me prayers and curses are just private words and intent that have no effect on anything, anywhere, anyway. I don’t lump private words into the same category as public words or actions. Maybe I’m just being cavalier with the issue, but assuming we’re talking about a prayer or a wish, I would say, “I hope that the people of–iunno, let’s say “Libya”–are given freedom and a chance to live in peace.” Again, that might be a tacit endorsement of a dictator’s death, or of a civil war that will lead to a greater peace. But I’m still praying for the peace, through whatever means, and not for the death itself. Maybe he has a sudden change of heart, abdicates, and his people are given peace without him having to be butchered in the streets like a dog. Who knows? Yeah, I hope that doesn’t sound like I’m beating around the bush…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/22 "2011-08-23T04:36:01Z")
> [@Sudden\_Kestrel](#): > > Well, being the unbeliever that I am, I’m not likely to be believing in things like hexes or curses, but I get your point. I try not to wish misery or pain on anybody just as a general principle. I could see myself wishing that someone would die if I thought that was what they would want, as in this case, but then I don’t have that aversion (not the exact word I want but I’m too sleepy to think) to death that seems to be part of many religions, so it isn’t a conflict for me. To clarify: I don’t believe in hexes or curses either. I just think it’s in poor taste to wish death on someone, as in “Boy, that Bill is a horse’s ass! I hope he gets AIDS and dies.” Assuming the person in question isn’t cartoonishly evil, even if you’re as secular as they’re come isn’t that…iunno, mean? A shitty thing to think, perhaps? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/23 "2011-08-23T06:12:23Z")
I would pray for comfort for the family, and that the loved one’s suffering to come to an end. Not for death. However the Goddess chooses to handle such requests is up to Her. I had such an occurence recently; my best friend’s elderly father was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I knew death was likely going to be the end to his suffering - and it was - but I did not ask for his death. I asked for an end to his suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/24 "2011-08-23T07:21:23Z")
> [@Sudden\_Kestrel](#): > > I think for me the distinction is between “being alive” and “living.” At home we make the distinction between living and lasting. The Grandma From Hell has been at the “lasting” setting for several years, as was the Grandpa From Hell before he finally died last summer - still, while wishing they’ll up and die is natural, it’s not right to pray for it. Maybe my own beliefs are clouded by many years of trying not to wish those two will die, tho. Both for my grandparents and for your friend, as **antonio107** said, that’s the point where “Thy will be done” is the appropriate answer as I (Catholic like him) was taught. Pray for the person and her caretakers to find patience, strength, release… yes. But tell God that the only acceptable release is that person’s death: no. I’m sure you’ve heard this first quote, which I have no idea whether it’s real or not; I assume the second one is as real or i-rreal as the first: Einstein (having heard of the probabilistic atom): “God doesn’t play with dice” Bohr (whose atomic theory had just been superseded by the probabilistic atom): “Don’t tell God how to do His job”. Telling God “the only way things can get better is for this person to die” is telling Him how to do His job. When we pray for something that’s already happening (the person is already dying) to be done, well, things are already going that way, it’s similar to praying “please let the feaking painters be done soon, I’m getting an ulcer out of this whole thing” - you already have the painters in the house. Another example. There’s a nunnery we visit often. Being cloistered nuns means that most of them never talk to outsiders; there are two sisters who have that specific job. One of the sisters who did that job until very recently started going wonky about a year ago; she was recently diagnosed with super-fast early-onset Alzheimer’s. She’s a strong, vigorous woman: she’ll get up at inappropriate moments and try to do things she shouldn’t (for example, get up in the middle of Lauds and try to go cook lunch, which wouldn’t even have been her job at any time), and her sisters have serious problems stopping her. The sisters have told us they reckon they should have prayed more for people with dementia in the family; the only previous case they had didn’t get memory problems until well into her 80s and she’s much meeker, a little old lady that, when told “it’s ok, you don’t remember but you really are as old as your hands look” will say “oh. So I can’t embroider any more?” “no, but you can prepare the thread for us” “oh, that’s wonderful!” Will Teresa get better? Not likely, but who knows what’s science going to be able to do in the next few years. Is it right for me to pray for her death? No. To pray that her short flashes of lucidity will be moments of acceptance, not of despair (like they are now), yes. To pray for patience and strength for her sisters, yes. To _hope_ that she won’t last as long as the little 100+ year old nun who prepares the thread, yes - but to _pray_ that she won’t, no. ---
**Author:** ![jimboslice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8c91f0/32.png) [@jimboslice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimboslice)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/25 "2014-03-25T17:13:44Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Yes. Praying for someone to die out of hate is wrong (because hate is wrong), but praying that someone who’s dying (specially someone who’s accepted his death) will get done with it, so those who are staying can go on living? Last I checked there were no commandments or canonic laws against it. > > Praying for the death of someone who’s not dying is wrong even if some people would consider it compassionate. That’s a case where I would pray for that person and their family to do as well as they can, but again, who am I to decide that someone who’s blind and paralized is better off dead, when that same person and her sister and brother in law don’t think so? Yes, it’s an actual case, and I’ve seen someone say “oh, she’d be better off dead” and didn’t have time to chew them off myself because two other friends of the family were already doing it. The person who said that wanted the other one dead because their pressence was uncomfortable, not out of actual compassion. Someone who was compassionate would have wanted to know whether anything could be done to help, not merely get rid of the “problem” by killing her off. “(because hate is wrong)”??? According to Jesus hate is not wrong at all, have you read the bible? Luke 14:26 New International Version (NIV) 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple International Standard Version The one who loves his life will destroy it, and the one who hates his life in this world will preserve it for eternal life. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/26 "2014-03-25T19:01:08Z")
When I was a practicing Christian I usually went with “Thy will be done.” It’s handy-dandy cover-all and in line with principles. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/27 "2014-03-25T19:21:23Z")
**Marge:** “Bart, no! You can’t ask God to kill someone.” **Homer:** “Yeah. You do your own dirty work!” ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/28 "2014-03-25T20:08:21Z")
I see I answered this before, and yet I’ll do it again: To me it is the motivation of your heart to the best you know how. Very simply if you believe the loving answer is to pray for someone’s physical death it the greatest Love then why would you do anything else? You can even pray for someone’s spiritual death if you feel that it is the greatest act of Love. Scriptural example Paul prayed (I think 2x) to hand someone over to Satan, Job was handed over to Satan and overcame and prospered. Love as best as you know how, and pray that you learn more of love, but don’t have regrets on loving as much as you are able. ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/29 "2014-03-25T21:53:06Z")
When you think someone (Catholic) is about to die, there’s a prayer that starts “Go forth, oh Christian soul, out of this world”, and carries on with what Catholics hope will happen next (go and be with God etc). There’s also a prayer of surrender which a person can say for themself, which starts “My Lord and Saviour, in your arms I am safe; keep me and I have nothing to fear; give me up and I have nothing to hope for. … I leave it all to you, because you know and I do not.” There’s nothing wrong with praying for someone’s - or your own - suffering to end and for death to be dignified and kind. My granny keeps asking me to pray for her to die - it’s what she prays for, after all. ETA - In fact just looking at the prayers for the dying to make sure I got it right, there’s a whole section that’s relevant to the question: “Be merciful to him (her), spare him (her) O Lord Be merciful to him (her), set him (her) free O Lord Be merciful to him (her), deliver him (her) O Lord.” ---
**Author:** ![Gateway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dbc845/32.png) [@Gateway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gateway)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/30 "2014-03-25T23:19:49Z")
A straight up request for someone to die is akin to asking a hit-man to whack somebody. You are probably better off praying that all be well is your friend, as that is the real motive anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/31 "2014-03-25T23:27:53Z")
_In the context of the OP,_ when death would release someone from incurable suffering, such a prayer could be acceptable. Myself, I prefer to phrase it as praying for release from suffering, even if that means they die, because, heck, if you’re praying to a god why not ask for a flat out miracle that _doesn’t_ require death? Otherwise, praying for someone to die because you dislike them or hate them or whatever is NOT acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/32 "2014-03-26T00:40:52Z")
> [@Sudden\_Kestrel](#): > > … I thought the congregation would have me arrested if they found out I wasn’t Catholic. I have no idea where I picked up that notion. Maybe you heard of “Heretics” being burned at the stake? That was a Catholic thing. Of course, the Heretics (Protestants) weren’t real pleasant to the Catholics at the time, either. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/33 "2014-03-26T00:54:33Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > \*… > Otherwise, praying for someone to die because you dislike them or hate them or whatever is NOT acceptable. Since when? How many have been killed in the name of some god or another? Since gods have a history of endorsing death, why not ask it to do the job(s) for you? Seems like a move in the right direction: “Dear God: Please kill those in the next valley over so I can expand my Kingdom” is a bit nicer than “God told me to kill all those bastards! Let’s go!”. I see no harm in praying for the death of another; in the case of the OP, it is to be commended. Offering the old girl a hand full of pills and “blink once for no, twice for yes” would be even more commendable. Yes, I am areligious - I have no religion, as well as no gods, and see prayer as a form of self-comforting. Almost always causes no harm and offers comfort to some. When it comes to praying _instead_ of acting, I have a problem. I once worked with an RN (non-medical setting) who had some ER experience with one of the groups which preach prayer over medicine. According to her, it was pretty much a “for the kids” thing - if it was a kid in pain, the parents would refuse medicines. If an adult came in, they were demanding drugs. No idea if this was a real experience, or just a good story. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/34 "2014-03-26T01:05:57Z")
I believe the name of the forum is “In My Humble Opinion”. _In my opinion_ it is unacceptable to pray for the death of another except in circumstances like in the OP. Why is it my opinion? Because MY religion forbids such a thing. Your mileage may vary, of course. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/35 "2014-03-26T02:59:50Z")
> [@bufftabby](#): > > I would simply pray that their suffering ends, and pray for strength for them and their loved ones. It isn’t up to me how God carries out his will. Yes, this. I pray for relief from their suffering and for mercy. God can make them better or let them die peacefully as he sees fit. ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587/36 "2014-03-26T10:29:34Z")
From a Hindu perspective: it wouldn’t be considered vile to pray for the release of someone suffering greatly, because the deity being prayed to understands your intentions and feelings for the suffering person. That said, it is far better to offer prayer to the deity and ask for the best thing to happen to the suffering person - either recovery or a merciful release. > [@](#): > > So, spiritual Dopers, do your beliefs allow you to pray for death for someone else? If so, is that only for deaths that would be considered by the majority to be “compassionate?” Yes. But I would not ask for any particular outcome, leaving it to the deity. > [@](#): > > If you prayed for death for a loved one who was suffering, would you be able to share that with your fellows who share your spiritual beliefs? Do you or would you feel any conflict with other tenets of your faith? Yes, and no conflict. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spiritual-folk-is-praying-for-someone-to-die-acceptable/593587.md?page=1)