Maybe I’m just being cavalier with the issue, but assuming we’re talking about a prayer or a wish, I would say, “I hope that the people of–iunno, let’s say “Libya”–are given freedom and a chance to live in peace.” Again, that might be a tacit endorsement of a dictator’s death, or of a civil war that will lead to a greater peace. But I’m still praying for the peace, through whatever means, and not for the death itself. Maybe he has a sudden change of heart, abdicates, and his people are given peace without him having to be butchered in the streets like a dog. Who knows?
Yeah, I hope that doesn’t sound like I’m beating around the bush…:rolleyes:
To clarify: I don’t believe in hexes or curses either. I just think it’s in poor taste to wish death on someone, as in “Boy, that Bill is a horse’s ass! I hope he gets AIDS and dies.” Assuming the person in question isn’t cartoonishly evil, even if you’re as secular as they’re come isn’t that…iunno, mean? A shitty thing to think, perhaps?
I would pray for comfort for the family, and that the loved one’s suffering to come to an end. Not for death. However the Goddess chooses to handle such requests is up to Her.
I had such an occurence recently; my best friend’s elderly father was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I knew death was likely going to be the end to his suffering - and it was - but I did not ask for his death. I asked for an end to his suffering.
At home we make the distinction between living and lasting. The Grandma From Hell has been at the “lasting” setting for several years, as was the Grandpa From Hell before he finally died last summer - still, while wishing they’ll up and die is natural, it’s not right to pray for it. Maybe my own beliefs are clouded by many years of trying not to wish those two will die, tho.
Both for my grandparents and for your friend, as antonio107 said, that’s the point where “Thy will be done” is the appropriate answer as I (Catholic like him) was taught. Pray for the person and her caretakers to find patience, strength, release… yes. But tell God that the only acceptable release is that person’s death: no. I’m sure you’ve heard this first quote, which I have no idea whether it’s real or not; I assume the second one is as real or i-rreal as the first:
Einstein (having heard of the probabilistic atom): “God doesn’t play with dice”
Bohr (whose atomic theory had just been superseded by the probabilistic atom): “Don’t tell God how to do His job”.
Telling God “the only way things can get better is for this person to die” is telling Him how to do His job. When we pray for something that’s already happening (the person is already dying) to be done, well, things are already going that way, it’s similar to praying “please let the feaking painters be done soon, I’m getting an ulcer out of this whole thing” - you already have the painters in the house.
Another example. There’s a nunnery we visit often. Being cloistered nuns means that most of them never talk to outsiders; there are two sisters who have that specific job. One of the sisters who did that job until very recently started going wonky about a year ago; she was recently diagnosed with super-fast early-onset Alzheimer’s. She’s a strong, vigorous woman: she’ll get up at inappropriate moments and try to do things she shouldn’t (for example, get up in the middle of Lauds and try to go cook lunch, which wouldn’t even have been her job at any time), and her sisters have serious problems stopping her. The sisters have told us they reckon they should have prayed more for people with dementia in the family; the only previous case they had didn’t get memory problems until well into her 80s and she’s much meeker, a little old lady that, when told “it’s ok, you don’t remember but you really are as old as your hands look” will say “oh. So I can’t embroider any more?” “no, but you can prepare the thread for us” “oh, that’s wonderful!” Will Teresa get better? Not likely, but who knows what’s science going to be able to do in the next few years. Is it right for me to pray for her death? No. To pray that her short flashes of lucidity will be moments of acceptance, not of despair (like they are now), yes. To pray for patience and strength for her sisters, yes. To hope that she won’t last as long as the little 100+ year old nun who prepares the thread, yes - but to pray that she won’t, no.
“(because hate is wrong)”???
According to Jesus hate is not wrong at all, have you read the bible?
Luke 14:26
New International Version (NIV)
26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple
International Standard Version
The one who loves his life will destroy it, and the one who hates his life in this world will preserve it for eternal life.
I see I answered this before, and yet I’ll do it again:
To me it is the motivation of your heart to the best you know how.
Very simply if you believe the loving answer is to pray for someone’s physical death it the greatest Love then why would you do anything else?
You can even pray for someone’s spiritual death if you feel that it is the greatest act of Love. Scriptural example Paul prayed (I think 2x) to hand someone over to Satan, Job was handed over to Satan and overcame and prospered.
Love as best as you know how, and pray that you learn more of love, but don’t have regrets on loving as much as you are able.
When you think someone (Catholic) is about to die, there’s a prayer that starts “Go forth, oh Christian soul, out of this world”, and carries on with what Catholics hope will happen next (go and be with God etc). There’s also a prayer of surrender which a person can say for themself, which starts “My Lord and Saviour, in your arms I am safe; keep me and I have nothing to fear; give me up and I have nothing to hope for. … I leave it all to you, because you know and I do not.” There’s nothing wrong with praying for someone’s - or your own - suffering to end and for death to be dignified and kind. My granny keeps asking me to pray for her to die - it’s what she prays for, after all.
ETA - In fact just looking at the prayers for the dying to make sure I got it right, there’s a whole section that’s relevant to the question:
“Be merciful to him (her), spare him (her) O Lord
Be merciful to him (her), set him (her) free O Lord
Be merciful to him (her), deliver him (her) O Lord.”
In the context of the OP, when death would release someone from incurable suffering, such a prayer could be acceptable. Myself, I prefer to phrase it as praying for release from suffering, even if that means they die, because, heck, if you’re praying to a god why not ask for a flat out miracle that doesn’t require death?
Otherwise, praying for someone to die because you dislike them or hate them or whatever is NOT acceptable.
Maybe you heard of “Heretics” being burned at the stake? That was a Catholic thing.
Of course, the Heretics (Protestants) weren’t real pleasant to the Catholics at the time, either.
Since when? How many have been killed in the name of some god or another?
Since gods have a history of endorsing death, why not ask it to do the job(s) for you?
Seems like a move in the right direction:
“Dear God: Please kill those in the next valley over so I can expand my Kingdom”
is a bit nicer than
“God told me to kill all those bastards! Let’s go!”.
I see no harm in praying for the death of another; in the case of the OP, it is to be commended. Offering the old girl a hand full of pills and “blink once for no, twice for yes” would be even more commendable.
Yes, I am areligious - I have no religion, as well as no gods, and see prayer as a form of self-comforting. Almost always causes no harm and offers comfort to some.
When it comes to praying instead of acting, I have a problem. I once worked with an RN (non-medical setting) who had some ER experience with one of the groups which preach prayer over medicine. According to her, it was pretty much a “for the kids” thing - if it was a kid in pain, the parents would refuse medicines. If an adult came in, they were demanding drugs.
No idea if this was a real experience, or just a good story.
I believe the name of the forum is “In My Humble Opinion”. In my opinion it is unacceptable to pray for the death of another except in circumstances like in the OP. Why is it my opinion? Because MY religion forbids such a thing.
From a Hindu perspective: it wouldn’t be considered vile to pray for the release of someone suffering greatly, because the deity being prayed to understands your intentions and feelings for the suffering person. That said, it is far better to offer prayer to the deity and ask for the best thing to happen to the suffering person - either recovery or a merciful release.
Yes. But I would not ask for any particular outcome, leaving it to the deity.
