# Spit or Swallow? A followup poll TMI? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 29, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070 "2003-03-29T20:44:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/981 "2003-05-21T11:43:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > **The man in the song is really hating and demeaning himself much more than he does the woman. After all, she “LET’S him violate her etc”. After that, the song is basically saying how he’s lost his soul and making love with her (albeit through animal sex) is his only, or near his only salvation.** Yeah, I know. And, you don’t find that creepy/vile/disgusting? I do. Yes, I get the flattering aspect of it (who better than I, right?). But, what a sick, twisted way of manipulating someone! > [@](#): > > **Oh, it’s not that line of the song, it’s all the rest.** Ah! I’d forgotten the rest of the words. All I could remember were the first couple of lines. You’re right about that one. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\*Well, the implication is that, if she lights his, he’ll light hers. It’s just assumed that’s understood. And, musically, it’s a thousand times better than “Closer…” \*\* > > I don’t know…I went and read those lyrics too, it sure didnt’ seem implicit to me. Most of the song is “come on baby light my fire”. \*\* No, the implication isn’t actually in the words, in this case. It’s in the whole 60’s vibe (which Tom Jones didn’t share, despite being around, then), and in Jim Morrison’s own personality. > [@](#): > > **And it’s better? Ummm Okay, I can concede the point about “Closer’s” ugly lyrics, but musically? NUH uh! The hot bass in Closer and the guitar, too too much.** Well, we’re probably always going to disagree on this point. But, “…Fire” is musically uplifting, while “Closer…” is musically crushing, IMO. > [@](#): > > **I like a lot of old classic rock, but the doors have always been on my “BLECH” list.** :eek: > [@](#): > > \*\*I guess if we ever had a fling, we’d BOTH have to wear earplugs…Or personal mp3 players 😃 \*\* Or, we could agree on something we both like. Or, turn the damn stereo off, and get serious! 😉 Actually, as I said elsewhere, I prefer no background music, most of the time. I prefer the music I coax out of my lovers. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rapunzel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cc9497/32.png) [@Rapunzel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapunzel)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/982 "2003-05-21T12:15:08Z")
Have you considered ‘American Woman’ by The Guess Who? Starts off slow, then psychedelic-y, then the second part is yer actual bump 'n’grind. Five mins start to finish. ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/983 "2003-05-21T14:49:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rapunzel \* > \*\*Have you considered ‘American Woman’ by The Guess Who? > > Starts off slow, then psychedelic-y, then the second part is yer actual bump 'n’grind. Five mins start to finish. \*\* Hi Rapunzel. Welcome to the SnS Pub! 🙂 Yeah, that’s a good choice, IMO. I love the Guess Who, too. Was it you I was telling that, elsewhere? ---
**Author:** ![mipiace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@mipiace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipiace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/984 "2003-05-21T17:44:08Z")
See I am gone for a week and you guys go and start debating serious issues on me. IMO - I like NIN, this is by far not the most dehumanizing song they have ever done - I can think of quite a few. In the same respect I like Kidd Rock and Fred Durst even though the majority of their lyrics refer to women as “Hos”. As a matter of fact, I find Kidd Rock kind of sexy. Thenthere is Eminem who wants to slash people’s throats and paint the woods with their entrails, hates his mother and his ex wife and sings about raping them both. Yet he is the most popular rapper out there these days and girls just totally cream for him. To me, it isn’t really about content. Unfortuantely our society has degraded morality and put a value on the shock factor. It isn’t that I particulary like it or don’t but I can appreciate it without taking it personally. Let’s all go over to Nightflyer’s and play “Why don’t we get Drunk and Screw?” That will solve everything! (Who cares if she’s a snuff queen? it is morally righteous and not offensive) ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/985 "2003-05-21T19:07:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mipiace \* > \*\*See I am gone for a week and you guys go and start debating serious issues on me. IMO - I like NIN, this is by far not the most dehumanizing song they have ever done - I can think of quite a few. \*\* Excellent point **Mia**. Many (most?) rap music is so down on women. Horribly so, with no redeeming message at all. I think of Closer as more of an “art” thing. As I said, I don’t usually go for unattractive art, and yes, the lyrics of that song can be taken as being pretty depressing, but IMHO, it has a sexy, AND human message. I think it carries hope along WITH the ugliness of the male singer’s depressed words. ---
**Author:** ![mipiace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@mipiace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipiace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/986 "2003-05-21T20:17:09Z")
Yeah I have noticed most of their lyrics are really depressed and modern lyrics in general have a more depressed tone. Not all - but there are a lot more bands that have that undercurrent than in years gone by. NIN happens to be be very negative on life in general not just women. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/987 "2003-05-22T02:44:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Davebear \* > \*\*Yeah, I know. And, you don’t find that creepy/vile/disgusting? I do. Yes, I get the flattering aspect of it (who better than I, right?). But, what a sick, twisted way of manipulating someone! I don’t know why, as I said, with other forms of art, I really don’t like the “ugly” ones, no matter how “deep” or meaningful they are supposed to be. Maybe it’s the anger, helplessness and frustration with which some of these songs are sung? They are like the antithesis of loneliness (to me at least). I mean think about it, you listen to a soft sexy song, or a “happier” rock tune, it just reminds you of all you don’t have, or have lost. > [@](#): > > No, the implication isn’t actually in the words, in this case. It’s in the whole 60’s vibe (which Tom Jones didn’t share, despite being around, then), and in Jim Morrison’s own personality. ACK, you’ve GOT to be kidding??? Jim Morrison’s personality? I mean, come on, we’re talking about the guy who was so arrogant about his own appeal that he took out his penis at a concert. Somehow that doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy who’d be a generous lover, from all I’ve read about him, he seems like the kind of “superstar” who expected to lie back and be serviced. As to the “our own music” part? I like it both ways, both with sexy music, and without. ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/988 "2003-05-22T12:03:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*ACK, you’ve GOT to be kidding??? Jim Morrison’s personality? I mean, come on, we’re talking about the guy who was so arrogant about his own appeal that he took out his penis at a concert. > > Somehow that doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy who’d be a generous lover, from all I’ve read about him, he seems like the kind of “superstar” who expected to lie back and be serviced. > \*\* No, not kidding. I just misspoke. What _is_ the right word, if not personality? Public image? Perceived character? I dunno. Not awake enough, yet. You may see him that way, but my sister and her friends certainly didn’t. They thought he was the sexiest man who ever lived. But, then again, they didn’t hate the Doors, as you say you did/do. And the flashing thing is an Urban Legend. Even Ray Manzarek, the keyboardist for the Doors, who hated Jim, towards the end, denies it ever happened. It was a trumped up charge brought by police who hated the whole sixties freedom movement, and how it affected kids, and blamed Jim and the Doors. ---
**Author:** ![Rapunzel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cc9497/32.png) [@Rapunzel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapunzel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/989 "2003-05-22T13:34:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Davebear \* > \*\*I love the Guess Who, too. Was it you I was telling that, elsewhere? \*\* Not me I’m afraid! ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/990 "2003-05-23T05:31:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Davebear \* > \*\*No, not kidding. I just misspoke. What _is_ the right word, if not personality? Public image? Perceived character? I dunno. Not awake enough, yet. You may see him that way, but my sister and her friends certainly didn’t. They thought he was the sexiest man who ever lived. But, then again, they didn’t hate the Doors, as you say you did/do. > > And the flashing thing is an Urban Legend. Even Ray Manzarek, the keyboardist for the Doors, who hated Jim, towards the end, denies it ever happened. It was a trumped up charge brought by police who hated the whole sixties freedom movement, and how it affected kids, and blamed Jim and the Doors. \*\* Really? I did NOT know that. That’s what I get for believing unauthorized biographies!! lol. Hmmmm, the right word? Maybe the words, you were looking for were just the good old fashioned ones of “sex appeal”? I guess I could agree with that, he WAS eye candy. I still get the vibe from his interviews and such that he was just really full of himself though. Maybe that’s why I never got into that teen groupie thing, I could smell conceit from miles away. I guess I’m lucky at least in that aspect, THAT sort of thing I can spot in a New York minute. If a man is the conceited “do me” and do FOR me type, I can see it as clearly as if they had it written on their foreheads. ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/991 "2003-05-23T10:35:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*Really? I did NOT know that. That’s what I get for believing unauthorized biographies!! lol. > > Hmmmm, the right word? Maybe the words, you were looking for were just the good old fashioned ones of “sex appeal”? I guess I could agree with that, he WAS eye candy. I still get the vibe from his interviews and such that he was just really full of himself though. Maybe that’s why I never got into that teen groupie thing, I could smell conceit from miles away. > > I guess I’m lucky at least in that aspect, THAT sort of thing I can spot in a New York minute. If a man is the conceited “do me” and do FOR me type, I can see it as clearly as if they had it written on their foreheads. \*\* It’s curious that you’ve spent so much time learning about someone you don’t like. Why would you do that? I’ve never read any of his biographies, but I’m not a big fan of biographies, in general. Even my favorite historical characters are a big enough draw, for me. Never mind some pop icon. But, I’ve heard several interviews with Manzarek, and the flashing thing always comes up. He’s still pretty bitter about how things turned out, but he denies it ever happened, every time. I suppose Jim probably was, or became, pretty egotistical. It’s probably hard not to, when you’ve got hundreds, if not thousands, of girls who would be happy to “do, and do for” you almost every night. I don’t really understand the groupie mindset, but that kind of attention _has_ to have an affect on a person. ---
**Author:** ![tanookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/48db29/32.png) [@tanookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanookie)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/992 "2003-05-23T12:11:52Z")
My mom loves the doors. I don’t hate them but neither are they any favorite of mine… I’ve never been so into any group that I’d consider myself a groupie 🙂 I did go to a few Huey Lewis concerts though in my young and silly days… that’s as close as I ever got though. I just have to say that Jim Morrison is simply not eye candy for every lady. I think he’s very UNattractive. Oh … and on topic… heartburn’s not an issue anymore! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/993 "2003-05-23T17:49:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tanookie \* > \*\*My mom loves the doors. \*\* Your _mom!?_ Fabulous! ☹ Have I mentioned that I hate you, recently? I just wanted to get that in, before they catch me and drag me back to the retirement home. 😉 > [@](#): > > \*\*Oh … and on topic… heartburn’s not an issue anymore! 🙂 \*\* Lucky **Parallax**! ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/994 "2003-05-23T22:36:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Davebear \* > \*\*It’s curious that you’ve spent so much time learning about someone you don’t like. Why would you do that? > > I’ve never read any of his biographies, but I’m not a big fan of biographies, in general. Oh nooooo NOO!! Not a “real” biography, as in written, an UNauthorized one, as in a TV documentary. Hence my laughing at myself and saying that’s what I get for believing one. I mean, TV??? I should know better. As to why I spent time learning about him? That was during my “year of hell”. I spent a lot of time not sleeping and flipping aimlessly through the channels at 3am. ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/995 "2003-05-23T23:15:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*Oh nooooo NOO!! Not a “real” biography, as in written, an UNauthorized one, as in a TV documentary. > > Hence my laughing at myself and saying that’s what I get for believing one. I mean, TV??? I should know better. As to why I spent time learning about him? That was during my “year of hell”. I spent a lot of time not sleeping and flipping aimlessly through the channels at 3am. \*\* Oh. Duh! I didn’t make that connection. But, I know what you mean. At 3am, anything that isn’t an informercial looks good. And, Congratulations on reaching the 1K mark. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tanookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/48db29/32.png) [@tanookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanookie)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/996 "2003-05-23T23:25:19Z")
Hey look dave escaped from the home again! 🙂 Quick beat him into submission with his cane 😉 I’ll call the orderlies. My mom also claims to like NIN but I think she’s just trying to get on my good side. Scarily enough I’m going to speak here in defence of Jim Morrison’s attitude that he was some kind of gift to the ladies and deserved the groupies he had. I’m sure Jim was quite egotistical and it may have been that fame went to his head and it may have been the generation he lived in. Free love and all that certainly colored how people viewed relationships. Also the attitude towards women in general pretty much sucked then. I caught Saturday Night Fever or it’s sequel on TV a while back and was excited to watch a movie that I loved as a kid. Then I really watched it. Ouch. One scene in particular that was a wake up call is when John Travolta is going to have sex with this chick in his car. There is some problem with birth control and he gets a little pissed and then tells her “well you can just blow me then.” I know that’s just TV but that was a hugely popular movie so people must have identified with it somehow. He was so brutal about how he wouldn’t date her if she didn’t put out. _shudder_ Not that I think he deserves any posthumous medals or anything… just that I’m sure he wasn’t the only guy that felt women were just toys for his amusement. And yup Parallax is a very lucky guy… 🙂 Hopefully he will be lucky a few more times this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/997 "2003-05-24T13:03:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tanookie \* > \*\*Hey look dave escaped from the home again! 🙂 Quick beat him into submission with his cane 😉 I’ll call the orderlies. > > My mom also claims to like NIN but I think she’s just trying to get on my good side. \*\* The truly sad part of this is that your mom probably isn’t much older than I am. > [@](#): > > \*\* Scarily enough I’m going to speak here in defence of Jim Morrison’s attitude …Not that I think he deserves any posthumous medals or anything… just that I’m sure he wasn’t the only guy that felt women were just toys for his amusement.\*\* Yeah, I think a lot of people forget, or were never aware of, how different things were, back then. Concern for what a woman wanted out of life? Didn’t happen, unless she wanted to be a housewife. Anything else was “weird” and unacceptable. Women should enjoy sex as much as men? Absurd! By today’s standards, Jim might look like a troglodyte, but at the time he was one of the new “sensitive guys”. And, that was a big part of his appeal to girls. > [@](#): > > \*\*And yup Parallax is a very lucky guy… 🙂 Hopefully he will be lucky a few more times this weekend. \*\* Well, it’s back on topic, but I just know that the phrase “a few more times…in a single weekend!” is going to be echoing through my mind all weekend. ---
**Author:** ![tanookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/48db29/32.png) [@tanookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanookie)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/998 "2003-05-24T13:11:18Z")
Dave… my mom’s almost 60… I don’t think you’re quite that old… Unless maybe you know Dick Clark’s secret??? And if you do you better divulge! _comfort dave_ Hey it is a long weekend! ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/999 "2003-05-24T13:29:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tanookie \* > **Dave… my mom’s almost 60… I don’t think you’re quite that old… Unless maybe you know Dick Clark’s secret??? And if you do you better divulge!** Sure. He’s a vampire. I thought everyone knew that. Besides, you’re the one who never remembers what anyone looks like. So, I could look like Strom Thurmond, for all you know. > [@](#): > > \*\*_comfort dave_ Hey it is a long weekend! \*\* I appreciate the thought, but reminding me that there’s an extra day for the phrase “a few more times…in a single weekend!” to bounce around inside my skull isn’t helping. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![pencilpusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d6d6ee/32.png) [@pencilpusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pencilpusher)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070/1000 "2003-05-24T14:12:07Z")
Hey Dave… too bad your in Boston 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spit-or-swallow-a-followup-poll-tmi/165070.md?page=51)