# Spoil Guys & Dolls for Me, Please. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 6, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877 "2004-03-06T19:16:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/1 "2004-03-06T19:16:31Z")
What I know about this musical I’ve gleaned from the liner notes on the CD (the soundtrack to the mid-90’s Broadway revival) and from the songs on the CD itself. I understand the general idea, but I’m unclear on how it all works out. And since I don’t anticipate _G & D_ coming to Springfield, IL any time soon, I’ll just have to get the Straight Dope™. > [@](#): > > Nathan Detroit, a harried but avid gambler, has to raise $1,000 to front the floating crap game he runs. Nathan bets the dashing Sky Masterson that the next girl Sky sees will fall for him. And the next girl Sky sees is the prim Sarah Brown, who runs the shabby Save-a-Soul Mission. After sky sweeps Sarah down to Havana for a rendezvous, they fall for each other. Meanwhile, Nathan keeps jilting Miss Adelaide, the nightclub chantootsie to whom he has been engaged for 14 years, giving her a fierce case of psychosomatic sniffles from never marching to the altar. After appropriate comic complications, Nathan gets his game, Sky comes down to earth, Sarah saves a soul, and Adelaide gets rid of her cold. That’s from the liner notes on the CD. What I want to know is: [ul] [li]How does Sky convince Sarah to go to Havana with him? I know that at one point she slaps him, so he must woo her pretty mightily between songs on the CD.[/li][li]How does Nathan get the money for his game? Does Sky lose the bet and have to pay him?[/li][li]Why does Nathan so quickly fall in love with Adelaide after ignoring her for 14 years (preceeding the song _Guys & Dolls_)?[/li][li]Why do Nathan & Nicely Nicely Johnson wind up at a prayer meeting (the song _Sit Down You’re Rockin the Boat_)?[/li][li]Sky rolls for $100,000 at some point during the craps game (the song _Luck Be a Lady Tonight_). Before the song, he says “I’ve got a little more than dough riding on this bet.” What does THAT mean? And how does his roll turn out? Does he win?[/li][li]The photo on the last page of my CD notes shows Sky in what looks like a bus driver’s uniform. Does he give up gambling for Sarah and get a straight job?[/li][/ul] If there’s anything else that can help me understand this, let me know. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![SkeptiJess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/2 "2004-03-06T20:06:52Z")
Go down to the video store and rent the 1950s movie version of “Guys and Dolls” starring Marlon Brando and Frank Sinatra. It isn’t a perfect version – there were some very minor changes to the story and some larger changes to the score – but it’s pretty darned good and will clarify the story for you completely. _How does Sky convince Sarah to go to Havana with him?_ He promises to bring in enough “bonafide sinners” to fill her prayer meeting and save her mission (which is in danger of being closed because of the lack of clients) in exchange for her company to Havana. In Havana, she gets a little tipsy and they fall in love. _How does Nathan get the money for his game? Does Sky lose the bet and have to pay him?_ Nathan doesn’t need the money as it turns out – while Sky and Sarah are in Havana, Nathan breaks into the mission and holds his craps game there. Later, Sky does pay off the bet, claiming that he didn’t win it (take Sarah to Havana) at all. _Why does Nathan so quickly fall in love with Adelaide after ignoring her for 14 years (preceeding the song Guys & Dolls)?_ He’s been in love with her all along – they were engaged for 14 years – he just didn’t want to get married. He doesn’t want to lose her, and when she finally puts her foot down, he – reluctantly – marries her at the end. _Why do Nathan & Nicely Nicely Johnson wind up at a prayer meeting (the song Sit Down You’re Rockin the Boat)?_ Sky tracks everybody down at the second craps game – the one at the mission on the night Sky and Sarah went to Havana had been broken up by the police – and bets them all $1000 against their presence at the prayer meeting on one roll of the dice. _Sky rolls for $100,000 at some point during the craps game (the song Luck Be a Lady Tonight). Before the song, he says “I’ve got a little more than dough riding on this bet.” What does THAT mean? And how does his roll turn out? Does he win?_ See above. He has both his honor as a gambler and her love riding on the roll. Remember, he had promised Sarah the sinners in exchange for her company to Havana. And, she was mad at him, thinking he had known that Nathan planned to use the mission for the craps game and that Sky had taken her to Havana to get her out of the way. _The photo on the last page of my CD notes shows Sky in what looks like a bus driver’s uniform. Does he give up gambling for Sarah and get a straight job?_ In the play, Sky (and Nicely-Nicely, who undergoes a conversion experience during “Sit Down, You’re Rocking the Boat”) appear in Salvation Army uniforms (which look a little like bus uniforms, I guess) in the final scene, and Nathan appears in an apron – looking as if he owns or works in a store. So, yes, in the play they both seem to have gone straight after marriage. This isn’t so obvious in the movie, BTW – the wedding is the final movie scene and both Sky and Nathan are wearing their regular gambler suits (although Nicely-Nicely is wearing a Salvation Army uniform and playing in the band). Both Nathan and Sky are delivered to the wedding, BTW, in a paddy wagon by Sergeant Brannigan, who gives Adalaide away. Nathan tries to make a break for it, but Sky grabs him and hauls him up to Adalaide to do his duty. God, I love this play! I’ve seen it at least a dozen times. Twice in touring Broadway versions (in San Diego and in Boston), once in London (with a wonderful tap-dancing Sky), and in various dinner theatres, high school productions, and community theatre productions. I’ve never seen a bad version – they were _all_ fun. The best Nicely-Nicely I ever saw was in a community-theatre version in Newport, RI. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/3 "2004-03-06T20:08:49Z")
This is weird, this is the second synopsis I have given someone for Guys and Dolls in two days. _How does Sky convince Sarah to go to Havana with him? I know that at one point she slaps him, so he must woo her pretty mightily between songs on the CD._ He tries to trick her by promising to find sinners to come to her Mission (it’s suffering from poor attendance) and saying that the only catch is that she has to go to dinner with him at his favorite restaurant, the trick being that his favorite restaurant is in Havana. When she first learns this, she refuses to go, but then relents, obsensibly to save the Mission, but we (the audience) can see she is also starting to be fascinated with Sky. _How does Nathan get the money for his game? Does Sky lose the bet and have to pay him?_ I think what you’re talking about is the money for the space for the game – he doesn’t get the money for the garage, so instead he comes up with the idea to have the game in the Mission. _Why does Nathan so quickly fall in love with Adelaide after ignoring her for 14 years (preceeding the song Guys & Dolls)?_ This is just one of those mysteries of musical theater. My impression is that he does love Adelaide, the plot is just playing on that stereotype of guys who don’t want to settle down (and women who nag them to). \*Why do Nathan & Nicely Nicely Johnson wind up at a prayer meeting (the song Sit Down You’re Rockin the Boat)? Sky rolls for $100,000 at some point during the craps game (the song Luck Be a Lady Tonight). Before the song, he says “I’ve got a little more than dough riding on this bet.” What does THAT mean? And how does his roll turn out? Does he win?\* This is the same plot point – Sky needs to bring people to the Mission to satisfy his end of the Havana bargain, so he bets the gamblers that if he wins, they have to come to the meeting. It’s a funny scene at the Mission where all the gamblers share their regrets about gambling, mostly that they lost the bet with Sky. The song comes when Nicely Nicely Johnson and Nathan get caught up in the spirit of the meeting. _The photo on the last page of my CD notes shows Sky in what looks like a bus driver’s uniform. Does he give up gambling for Sarah and get a straight job?_ At the end of the show, he’s running a newsstand. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/4 "2004-03-06T20:42:59Z")
Minor correction or elaboration: Nathan’s **FIRST[** “oldest established permanent floating crap game in New York” is held in the mission but it’s busted up by a raid from the cops (just as Sky & Sarah get back, which reminds Sarah that Sky is a gambler [she also thinks he had a hand in the mission’s use, which he didn’t]). Unable to use the mission a second time, Nathan reorganizes the game in the sewers under NYC (which are amazingly clean and colorful) and that’s where Sky pays him the $1,000 he “owes” him and wins the sinner’s souls. Nathan by this time has earned thousands from his take of the crap game but loses it all to a gambler named Big Julie who forces him to play at gunpoint. Big Julie insists on using his own dice, which are blank (“but I remembers where da spots were…”). When Nathan tries to make Big Julie play with honest dice (after Big Julie’s gun has been taken away by Sky), Julie’s friend Harry-the-Horse says “Nuttin’ doin… with honest dice Big Julie couldn’t make a point to save his soul”, which gives Sky the idea to roll for $1000 each against the gamblers’ souls (cue song: _Luck Be a Lady Tonight_.) Hijack, but how in hell did Marlon go from the studly Sky and sleazy but studly Stanley to Kurtz? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/5 "2004-03-06T22:28:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Hijack, but how in hell did Marlon go from the studly Sky and sleazy but studly Stanley to Kurtz? He hired Orson Welle’s dietician. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/6 "2004-03-06T23:06:09Z")
You’re looking for a plot summary? ::: singing ::: I’ve got the plot right here… ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/7 "2004-03-07T00:22:07Z")
_It’s name is Paul Revere!_ ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/8 "2004-03-07T05:47:18Z")
_and here’s a guy who says if the plot’s not clear_ ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/9 "2004-03-07T06:00:43Z")
_sue me, sue me_ I was a Hot Box dancer once…I’m not saying how long it took me to get that joke. ---
**Author:** ![emekthian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecae2f/32.png) [@emekthian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emekthian)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/10 "2004-03-07T06:22:34Z")
Did anyone else see the episode of the simpsons where Mark Hamill had to sing “Luck be a Lady Tonight” before they saw the actual play? Of you all, did anyone mentally replace the real lyrics with the ones from the episode, and start giggling in the theatere? Or am I the only one? ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/11 "2004-03-07T15:31:06Z")
_can do, can do if he says the plot can do can do, can do_ ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/12 "2004-03-07T17:56:46Z")
Mark Hamill in _Guys and Dolls_? The mind boggles. _I’m in the Jedi line And now I’m feelin’ fine Because my dad’s the guy who went and killed Palpentine_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/13 "2004-03-07T17:59:29Z")
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. I was Nicely-Nicely (thank you) in my HS production. Which was kind of weird since I was the bass section leader in the choir. I guess it helped that my sister kicked me rather hard the night before the auditions. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/14 "2004-03-07T18:28:54Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > Mark Hamill in _Guys and Dolls_? The mind boggles. Actually, it goes: "Luke, be a Jedi tonight Just be a Jedi tonight! Do it for Yoda, while we serve our guests a soda. Uh, and do it for Chewie and the Ewoks, and all the other puppets … " The song derails at this point. Plus, don’t forget the intro _Guys and Dolls_, sung to the tune of _Hooray for Hollywood_. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/15 "2004-03-07T20:08:23Z")
> [@](#): > > (after Big Julie’s gun has been taken away by Sky) Not really a plot point, by the way, but there’s a great line in that scene. Sky offers a $1000 bet with Big Julie, on “Am I a lefty or a righty?”. Julie turns him down, saying that there’s no way he could know that. Sky says “Here’s a hint”, and slugs him. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/16 "2004-03-08T03:35:46Z")
I have here a brand-new deck of cards on which the seal is not yet broken… ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/17 "2004-03-08T11:54:58Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > I have here a brand-new deck of cards on which the seal is not yet broken… No way. I don’t want cider in _my_ ear. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/18 "2004-03-08T20:55:01Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > No way. I don’t want cider in _my_ ear. I’ve never seen the play live, only the movie, so I have wondered: It is “cider” on stage or did the movie, um, bowlderize it? DD ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/19 "2004-03-08T21:19:46Z")
It’s cider in the play, also (though it probably wasn’t cider in the original expression Runyan borrowed). ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-guys-dolls-for-me-please/232877/20 "2004-03-08T21:35:33Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I’ve never seen the play live, only the movie, so I have wondered: It is “cider” on stage or did the movie, um, bowlderize it? It is indeed “cider” on stage, and IIRC, it is also “cider” in Damon Runyon’s original story, “The Idyll of Miss Sarah Brown.” Although where he got the expression and what he might have changed it from, I have no idea. Spoons Occasional crapshooter, more frequent horseplayer, and onetime Benny Southstreet in a community production of G&D. Hey, I could not only supply my own copy of the _Daily Racing Form_, I was also the only one in the cast who could understand it!