# Spoil Robert Ludlum's Bourne series for me. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 16, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-robert-ludlums-bourne-series-for-me/161726 "2003-03-16T04:25:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-robert-ludlums-bourne-series-for-me/161726/1 "2003-03-16T04:25:27Z")
I finally got through _The Bourne Identity_. There was some stuff I liked about the book, but, overall, well, I guess spy/thriller just ain’t my genre, unfortunately. But dammit, I want to know who Carlos is. ---
**Author:** ![Purd\_Werfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47c2d/32.png) [@Purd\_Werfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purd_Werfect)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-robert-ludlums-bourne-series-for-me/161726/2 "2003-03-16T04:54:47Z")
All that really stands out in my memory regarding that book was the truly atrocious romantic interludes. Some of the worst dialogue ever written IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-robert-ludlums-bourne-series-for-me/161726/3 "2003-03-16T06:12:00Z")
“Carlos” is a legendary? hitman that may have some basis in fact. Ludlum isn’t the only spy/thriller author that references him, IIRC. There was a story about somebody that is thought to be him on one of the cable channels in the past year or two. You won’t find a resolution of the Carlos character in the Bourne series. The books were only so-so in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-robert-ludlums-bourne-series-for-me/161726/4 "2003-03-16T06:16:25Z")
It Carlos that one infamous hitman that went by the codename The Jackle? Here is some [info](http://www.crimelibrary.com/terrorists/carlos/text/) I just googled on him. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-robert-ludlums-bourne-series-for-me/161726/5 "2003-03-16T19:08:43Z")
At the end of _The Bourne Identity_, Ludlum lets it drop that Carlos is someone well known–a figure in government or media or something. Which struck me as odd, since he seemed awfully _busy_, what the plotting and the meeting with all the old men in churches and the assassinating of people and the running of his criminal empire and the hey hey. But what do I know . . . Now that Bourne has seen Carlos, I figgered it’d be just a matter of time before he saw a picture in _Newsweek_, or whatever, and the Mystery would be Revealed, so **John Carter’s** response is puzzling to me. I don’t really care about the real-life Carlos, just who he is in the Bourniverse. But, then again, I don’t really care enough to read any more books. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-robert-ludlums-bourne-series-for-me/161726/6 "2003-03-16T20:28:15Z")
Did anybody see the movie? My husband and I rented it and waited and waited for The Jackel to show up. He never did. I ate up The Bourne Identity (the novel) but could not slog through The Bourne Supremacy. Should I try again? ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-robert-ludlums-bourne-series-for-me/161726/7 "2003-03-17T00:57:41Z")
_Delta is for Cain, Cain is for Carlos_ **The Bourne Supremecy** is my favorite Robert Ludlum novel. There were some very good characters in the book, besides David Webb [Jason Bourne]. Webb’s wife Marie is heroic, as is a female Canadian diplomat whose name I forget. Plus “good old Echo” helps Bourne regain some of his memory. I would recommend **The Bourne Supremecy** Don’t bother with **The Bourne Ultimatum, Infinity** or whatever the final book was called. It was just silly, almost a parody of the earlier books. Bourne finally catches up Carlos, but it is just a drawn out mess. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-robert-ludlums-bourne-series-for-me/161726/8 "2003-03-17T01:10:13Z")
I didn’t mean to be obscure, **Podkyne**. I was trying to indicate that that there was no “Ah-ha, Gotcha’” scene in the series that provided a satisfactory end to Carlos. I don’t remember particulars, but I do rember being PO’ed at Ludlum for the way he handled that. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-robert-ludlums-bourne-series-for-me/161726/9 "2003-03-17T02:53:14Z")
::::::::::Movie spoiler without the spoiler tag::::::::::::::: I haven’t read the books. I did see the movie a few weeks ago on pay per view. In an opening scene, Bourne is laying face down on the fishing boat having his scuba suit cut open and the doctor remove the bullets. He is wearing no clothing under the scuba suit, at least in that part. Later on, Bourne is wearing an orangey colored sweater that looks like it has bullet holes in the back. It looks intentional. Is this something that was edited out but is in the book or what? ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-robert-ludlums-bourne-series-for-me/161726/10 "2003-04-20T01:53:23Z")
I just finished reading the Bourne Colossus (all three books), and thought I’d comment, seeing that the thread has been bumped recently. We watched the movie recently (gotta love netflix), and that set me on the books. First, Bourne is 37 in the first book. That’s never clearly laid out until the last book, where he says he’s almost 51 and the first book happened 13 years previously. Second, the last book did get a bit absurd. There were too many almost-got-Carlos-but-not-quite moments. It was beginning to look like Gilligan’s Island (we didn’t quite get off the island this week!). Here’s the exact quote **Podkayne** was referring to (from the end of _The Bourne Identity_): > [@](#): > > General Crawford: “He’s the only man alive who’s ever seen Carlos. As Carlos. He knows his identity, but it’s locked away in his mind, part of an unremembered past. We understand from what he says that Carlos is someone known to many people-a visible figure in a government somewhere, or in the media, or international banking or society. It fits with a prevalent theory. The point is one day that identity may come into focus for Webb.” The funny thing about this is that I really had forgotten about it by the time I’d read through the books. Apparently, so had Ludlum. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-robert-ludlums-bourne-series-for-me/161726/11 "2003-04-20T06:08:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\*Did anybody see the movie? My husband and I rented it and waited and waited for The Jackel to show up. He never did. > \*\* I saw the movie. While it was a good movie, a friend who’s read the series tells me it has very little to do with the books… ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoil-robert-ludlums-bourne-series-for-me/161726/12 "2003-04-20T15:44:21Z")
I saw the movie and read the book. The movie is just one plot strand from the book-- with a very large expansion of the girl part. So while the movie is slightly changed fraction of the first book, it’s not completely different from it.