As far as i am aware it is supposed to be a documentary.
To Quote Michael Moore-
“…my new film, “Bowling for Columbine,” was awarded the Special Prize of the 55th Cannes Film Festival. It had already made history by being the first **documentary ** chosen to be part of the official festival competition in almost 50 years. And, last night, it was the only prize awarded that received a unanimous decision from the festival jury.”
Heavens, you may be right! After all, it’s not like he has an agenda, or anything.
No, he’s a serious maker of objective documentaries.
:rolleyes: [sup]–Whatever, Mikey…[/sup]
What do you think Moore’s agenda was with BFC? It wasn’t gun control. Moore never once tries to make an argument for gun control in the film, in fact he specifically dismisses the argument that guns cause violence. (also, Moore is a lifelong member of the NRA and is a former sharpshooter and gun safety instructor)
It was pretty obvious he was denouncing the “fear sells” hysteria of American news.
KILLER BEES.
AFRICANIZED killer bees, no less. Remember, you can tell them from European bees because of their larger anatomy.
I saw BFC and have to agree that Moore is a showman. It didn’t come on like a typical documentary because of him, but it was. Were things slanted? Sure. Views are slanted in every episode of 60 minutes, or any other documentary. There were enough facts, however, to imply a definite situation that is unique to the US. We are overall more violent here as opposed to any other first world nation. Then it gave a reasoning as to why. Fear. Was in rather sensational? Sure, but it left me thinking of how we live in a different way. It made it’s point. What really was eerie to me was that Marilyn Manson was the sanest interviewee in the documentary. He philosophy was fairly impressive. “What would you say to the klids of today?” Moore asks. “I wouldn’t say anything, I’d listen.” he said. Anyway…I like the movie. It is not an “insult my intelligence” caliber of movie, so it passes.
Moore has always admitted that he joined the NRA with the intention of becoming involved and changing it from a firearm owners rights organization* to purely a shooting sports organization.
*at least nominally
I hope this doesn’t sound too much like either Hannibal Lecter of the Uptown White Ladies League Guide to Social Etiquette, but the thing that most offended me about BFC (and for the record, I believe in reasonable gun control measures and think Heston is as full of shite and himself in some order as most faded superstars) was the rudeness of the attack on Heston. This probably sounds really nellie and pollyanna, neither of which is me, but to me it’s the epitome of rudeness to accept a gracious invitation into somebody’s home and there assault their views and then air it, after editing, to their detriment. While I wouldn’t have cared less if he’d ripped Heston to shreds in a public arena of debate, the spitting on his hospitality was just somewhere between poor manners and the most crass showmanship.
I didn’t have the least clue what Moore was trying to prove with Dick Clark, incidentally. On one of Moore’s increasingly unfunny TV shows, he spent a 20 minute segment evidently trying to prove that Ted Turner is really really rich, which honestly wasn’t news to me, and that many products sold at Wal-Mart are made overseas by children, which also wasn’t news. For all his muckraking, I don’t really know what his point is or who’s life is better off for his efforts other than his own.
While I loved ROGER & ME and its sequel, Moore is increasingly entering the zone of people who have all of Howard Stern’s classlessness and egomania without Howard Stern’s realization that he’s a classless egomaniac. Moore reminds me also of the type described in one of David Sedaris’s books as “the type who is pretty sure that when the Revolution comes his job will involve walking around with a clipboard giving instructions”, or a Robespierre Chi Lenin wannabe who if he ever actually got power would abolish dissenting speech overnight and be worse than any of the powerful he’s ever trashed.
He was pretty damn rude…I didn’t like that piece either. The basis for the the Dick Clark attack was weak. Somebody died and he tried to associate Clark to it…senseless.
I will try to see his older movies though.
Charleton Heston was a civil rights activist before it was popular to do so - so implying that he’s racist seems misdirected.
Perhaps he was making a comment on the statistical facts (which I think are true, IIRC) that culturally diverse societies tend to be more violent than culturally homogenous societies. He was asked to explain the violence, and assumably (I haven’t seen so) tried to do so in a logical manner. Which got him, of course, knee-jerk reactions of “Racist southern gun nut!!!”
Then why was the interview with Charleton Heston necesary? And wasn’t there some scene where he tried to inspire an emotional knee-jerk reaction by leaving a picture of a dead girl on Charleton Heston’s patio or something?
I’m curious, do you have a cite for this?
My Immigration Control Platform friends might want to have a gander.
Mogiaw
“Homicide” does not mean the same thing as “Murder.” If 20 people get run over by cars and killed, and in one of the cases the driver did it deliberately, then there have been 20 homicides but only 1 murder.
I’m not implying Heston is racist. I’m saying that his half-assed implication (“we’re more violent because we’re ethnically more diverse”), which he did NOT expand or elaborate upon, even after being asked twice by Moore, came across as potentially racist because he didn’t elaborate.
For what it’s worth: countries like the Netherlands and the United Kingdom are just as diverse, if not more, than the US. Why aren’t they more violent?
I’m not suggesting I have the anwer: I just know the answer “it’s because we’re more ethnically diverse” is a load of crap.
As far as Moore being rude to Heston: I’m assuming Heston gave his OK for the material afterwards - or is his invitating Moore in an implicit approval of all that’s filmed next? I honestly don’t know how that would work.
Heston apparently agreed to the interview. Unless the interview was conditioned on the right to approve the use of any of the footage, that’s all the permission Moore needs.
Senor Beef, Heston may have been a supporter of civil rights (not just guns) decades ago, but his statements in recent years have bordered on bigotry. For instance, I found a copy of a 1997 speech where he had this to say:
No - I don’t - just the memory of an article I read a long time ago.
I don’t see his statements as bigotry whatsoever. (Hey, maybe that makes me a biggot!). He’s referring more to the double standard applied against what he sees as people people with tradtional, conservative values. He’s angry at a double standard applied to those like him, and isn’t, as far as I can see, trying to claim any superiority of his race or anything like that. I’m not sure I see the biggotry.
In the second quote, he describes the double standard a bit more - ‘black pride’ is acceptable and encouraged by society at large, etc.
In the third, I guess that’s the closest to biggotry - but seems like irritation at the willingness to support all rights but the right to self defense.
Anyway, since we were discussing his (implied) racist tendencies, you’ll have to explain to me why these statements are racist or biggoted. I agree with the sentiment that there is a double standard against ‘traditional values’ in this country, and largely agree with his sentiment - does that make me a biggot?
Personally, I think the very fact that speaking out about the double standard applied to Christian/Gun Owning/Middle Class/Whites/etc. automatically gets you lablled as a bigot is only more proof that there is a double standard.
Had a minority, islamic, gay rights activist, or somesuch, made similar statements, he’d be considered a Great Messenger for his Noble Cause.
I never figured you would. I’ll let his words speak form themselves, though.
I asked you to explain why you thought his statements were biggoted. When presenting quotes meant to show biggotry, it seems a reasonable question.
Instead, you’ve basically responded with implying “Oh, I KNEW you’d say that, you’re just as bad as him!”
But fine - your words can speak for themselves.
I had no intention of slamming you with that statement. I simply declined your invitation to debate the meaning and subtext of Heston’s speech in a Cafe Society thread. Since I’m not going to debate it here (nor elsewhere, since it would be a singularly unproductive discussion), I said I’d let his words speak for themselves. No offense intended.