# (Spoilers) Firefly 2: The Train Job **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009 "2005-05-16T02:12:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/41 "2005-05-20T02:47:01Z")
> [@NE Texan](#): > > Maybe not, but Mal wasn’t actually in a firefight, and in fact just walks in on the scene. I’m thinking more of a “Mal shot first” count. Hells yes. The guy was dangerous, armed, and unpredictable. I don’t know about you, but I’d shoot first for damn sure. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/42 "2005-05-20T16:06:39Z")
> [@NE Texan](#): > > Maybe not, but Mal wasn’t actually in a firefight, and in fact just walks in on the scene. I’m thinking more of a “Mal shot first” count. I call it the “Suckerpunch Count.” The first few episodes, he kills people with no warning … eventually he brings it down a couple notches to just punching them in the middle of a sentence. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![NE\_Texan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e99b99/32.png) [@NE\_Texan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NE_Texan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/43 "2005-05-20T18:24:49Z")
> [@Draelin](#): > > I call it the “Suckerpunch Count.” The first few episodes, he kills people with no warning … eventually he brings it down a couple notches to just punching them in the middle of a sentence. 🙂 Yeah, I think I saw you post that in an earlier thread, and that’s what I was thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![NE\_Texan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e99b99/32.png) [@NE\_Texan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NE_Texan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/44 "2005-05-21T03:41:21Z")
Everyone go watch _“Bushwhacked”_ this weekend. By the way, if you’re coming in late, feel free to comment on early episodes in new threads, or bump the old ones - they won’t be that old. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/45 "2005-05-21T04:38:16Z")
Right-ee-o, NE. Damn, if I could actually watch the DVDs without getting depressed at opportunities lost it would help. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![NE\_Texan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e99b99/32.png) [@NE\_Texan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NE_Texan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/46 "2005-05-21T11:18:00Z")
Yeah, I feel that way about a lot of programs. On the bright side, we’re trying to make this feel as though this series is on for the first time and we’re all discussing it fresh. (Shhh… don’t tell anyone…) ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/47 "2005-05-21T23:20:46Z")
> [@NE Texan](#): > > Maybe not, but Mal wasn’t actually in a firefight, and in fact just walks in on the scene. I’m thinking more of a “Mal shot first” count. How about Mal ordering Jayne to shoot Two-fry? (I think that was the name - Patience’s sharpshooter.) ---
**Author:** ![NE\_Texan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e99b99/32.png) [@NE\_Texan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NE_Texan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/48 "2005-05-22T01:00:30Z")
Oh yeah, I like that scene. He’s talking “for the audience”, ie Jayne… “That would be the one with the big hat?” Patience must not be terribly bright… ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/49 "2005-05-22T17:03:10Z")
> [@NE Texan](#): > > Oh yeah, I like that scene. He’s talking “for the audience”, ie Jayne… “That would be the one with the big hat?” Patience must not be terribly bright… It wasn’t _that_ obvious: Mal: Got the money back. There’s no need for killin’. Zoe: We’re just gonna walk away, sir? Mal: Guess that’s up to Patience here. Could be messy. Patience: Not terribly. Mal,you just ain’t very bright, are ya? Mal: [gestures at Two-Fry] That’s quite a rifle. Boy must be your best shot to carry that. Patience: He’s called Two-Fry. Always makes it quick and clean. Mal: Two-Fry. Nice hat. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/50 "2005-05-22T20:41:49Z")
I find it interesting that Mal has varying levels of behavior towards hostiles depending on how dangerous they are. For Simon, it’s “If I ever kill you, you’ll be awake, you’ll be facing me, and you’ll be armed.” For the guy who goes into the engine… he’s got a little different code that he follows… ---
**Author:** ![NE\_Texan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e99b99/32.png) [@NE\_Texan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NE_Texan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/51 "2005-05-23T02:55:49Z")
Time to get _“[Bushwhacked](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=317772)”_ ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/52 "2005-06-11T13:51:36Z")
Okay, I’m a couple weeks behind, but I have to bump this thread. At the end of this ep, when the blue-gloved men show up “two by two,” we get the first sense of how big the _Firefly_ 'verse is. Anyone else catch one guy saying they didn’t fly 86 million miles for nothing? And those of us in the know recognize that figure as being within spitting distance of 1 A.U., the distance between the Earth and the Sun… All of which leads me to think that this series is taking place around our own solar system, _or_, since they keep talking about “The Earth That Was”, that it’s in the Alpha Centauri system, which will turn out to have plenty of planets and moons around its two suns. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/53 "2005-06-11T14:57:48Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > All of which leads me to think that this series is taking place around our own solar system, _or_, … Alpha Centauri system, Movie Spoiler Follows b e w a r e r e a d h i d i n g f r o m e m a i l Didn’t someone say that the movie shows that Firefly takes place in a single solar system? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/54 "2005-06-11T20:56:22Z")
\*\* carnivorousplant\*\*, if you don’t mind, could you give me a little hint as to what’s in your spoiler box because I’m trying really hard to avoid Serenity movie spoilers, but if all it is, is some further information about the size of inhabited space, I’ll read it. > [@Barbarian](#): > > Anyone else catch one guy saying they didn’t fly 86 million miles for nothing? And those of us in the know recognize that figure as being within spitting distance of 1 A.U., the distance between the Earth and the Sun… > > All of which leads me to think that this series is taking place around our own solar system, _or_, since they keep talking about “The Earth That Was”, that it’s in the Alpha Centauri system, which will turn out to have plenty of planets and moons around its two suns. Whenever I hear that line, I ignore it because yes, it bugs me. But since you had to gorram bring it up… It really makes no sense. Why would Mr. Blue Hands complain about a trip of less than eight light minutes? Unless they don’t have FTL, and the whole series takes place in one densely packed system. [insert lots of Chinese cussing here] No frakin’ way, Apollo! We’ve had this discussion in the Battlestar Galactica threads. There just ain’t no way we’re ever going to find a solar system with something like 50 habitable planets each with something like ten or twenty terraformable moons. That’s just silly. Even sillier than the 12 colonies in BSG. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/55 "2005-06-11T21:03:32Z")
Oh, and also, they’re constantly talking about the Reavers and how they went out to the dark edges of the galaxy, lost their minds and became savages. That’s the edge of the galaxy, not the edge of the system. You know, in the pilot when Wash released the “crybaby” decoy, the Alliance crew guy says there’s a passenger ship, about 13 clicks out, in distress. I assumed a “click” must mean something different in the future, because getting all concerned over a ship that’s only 13 kilometers away seemed a bit odd. Now I’m thinking that, while Joss Whedon is an excellent writer, someone needs to sit him down and explain sci-fi space distances to him. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/56 "2005-06-11T22:49:21Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > \*\* carnivorousplant\*\*, if you don’t mind, could you give me a little hint as to what’s in your spoiler box because I’m trying really hard to avoid Serenity movie spoilers, but if all it is, is some further information about the size of inhabited space, I’ll read it. > > Whenever I hear that line, I ignore it because yes, it bugs me. But since you had to gorram bring it up… > > It really makes no sense. Why would Mr. Blue Hands complain about a trip of less than eight light minutes? Unless they don’t have FTL, and the whole series takes place in one densely packed system. [insert lots of Chinese cussing here] > > No frakin’ way, Apollo! We’ve had this discussion in the Battlestar Galactica threads. There just ain’t no way we’re ever going to find a solar system with something like 50 habitable planets each with something like ten or twenty terraformable moons. > > That’s just silly. Even sillier than the 12 colonies in BSG. No it isn’t! Given control of gravity (which they have), and the ability to terraform, our OWN solar system could easily have three habitable planets and at least a dozen habitable moons. And our sun is a tiny one as stars go. A big, bright sun could have a ‘habitable zone’ bigger than our entire solar system. It could have a dozen gas giants, each with a dozen moons large enough to become nice worlds, assuming gravity control that allows them to hold an atmosphere and feel like Earth. There could be ten or fifteen ‘core worlds’ in the habitable zone, and hundreds of Terraformed moons. Instead, you’d rather believe in faster-than-light travel, which, as far as we know, is physically impossible on a macro level? And if the Firefly universe was set in the entire galaxy, it makes no sense that they would keep returning to the same few planets and running into the same people. And for that matter, the browncoats could have just moved a long, long way from the alliance and not had to deal with them ever again. The entire conflict in Firefly presupposes that these societies are constantly rubbing elbows. If the show was based in the entire galaxy, it makes no sense that ships would pass closely to each other on occasion, and when Serenity breaks down in ‘out of gas’ it would make no sense to send out a radio beacon, since it wouldn’t arrive anywhere for years. And for the coup de grace, here’s the opening voice-over from the TV series when it was on the air, spoken by book during the opening credits: > [@](#): > > "After the Earth was used up, we found a new solar system and hundreds of new Earths were terraformed and colonized. The Central Planets formed the Alliance and decided all the planets had to join under their rule. > > There was some disagreement on that point. > > After the war, many of the Independents who had fought and lost, drifted to the edges of the system far from Alliance control. Out here, people struggle to get by with the most basic technologies. A ship would bring you work. A gun would help > you keep it. A captain’s goal was simple: Find a crew, find a job, keep flying." So 86 million miles sounds like a perfectly fine number - a plausible distance between two ‘core worlds’. And 13 kilometers also sounds like a fine distance if you’re in orbit around a small moon. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/57 "2005-06-11T23:05:51Z")
> [@](#): > > a new solar system and hundreds of new Earths were terraformed and colonized That’s just as silly as the gun needing air to fire. Of course, it was Jane who said that… 🙂 Re: Terra forming Venus is darn hot and Mars is darn cold. I don’t know about the moons of gas giants, but I reckon they are pretty cold. Re: FTL You’d have to have some way to travel darn fast, else you’d have to consider relative positions when traveling months between planets. levdrakon: It’s a spoiler about galaxy vs. solar system allegedly refered to in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/58 "2005-06-11T23:26:16Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > And if the Firefly universe was set in the entire galaxy, it makes no sense that they would keep returning to the same few planets and running into the same people. Sure, there would be trade routes like the Chisholm trail, and places they would return to like Kansas City. They aren’t exploring deep space like Star Trek, they’re trying to hide from the law and make money. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2005, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/59 "2005-06-12T00:15:27Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > That’s just as silly as the gun needing air to fire. > Of course, it was Jane who said that… 🙂 That was a mistake, and Joss has said so. They were TRYING to get it right, and some technical ‘expert’ told them that guns needed air to fire, so they tried to accomodate that. On the other hand, you can easily accept this because Jayne just says, “Vera needs air around her to fire”. Since it’s a futuristic space-weapon and we have no real idea how it works, perhaps it does. Maybe it has a sensor that reads air pressure to calculate bullet resistance, and a vacuum screws it up. > [@](#): > > Re: Terra forming > Venus is darn hot and Mars is darn cold. I don’t know about the moons of gas giants, but I reckon they are pretty cold. Venus is darn hot because it’s got something like 90 atmospheres of Greenhouse gas sitting on it. Mars is very cold because it lost its greenhouse. Haven’t you missed the debate where NASA has been talking about whether or not Mars was warm and wet in the past? Given a bigger mass, a hotter liquid core giving it a magnetic field, and Mars might have been a lovely place for humans to live. And if you’ve got the capability to terraform, you’ve got the capability to build whatever atmosphere you need to trap heat. Robert Heinlein wrote a science fiction book about colonizing Ganymede by putting a greenhouse trap over it. And since this is another solar system, we really have no idea of its structure. Why are you so keep to dismiss this? Perhaps a large, bright star has a dozen planets in a habitable zone the size of our entire solar system, or maybe even ten times the size of our solar system. Why is this so hard to accept? > [@](#): > > Re: FTL > You’d have to have some way to travel darn fast, else you’d have to consider relative positions when traveling months between planets. Any 1-G constant-acceleration drive could travel between planets in a matter of days. It doesn’t have to be FTL. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009/60 "2005-06-12T00:29:02Z")
**Sam** , I don’t remember hearing that voiceover by Book. It isn’t on the DVDs. I wonder if it wasn’t purposely removed? Is this voiceover at the beginning of _Serenity_, or _Train Job_? Even is such an amazing solar system existed, without FTL how long would it take to find it? 500 years? 1000 years? 10,000 years? Yet somehow we managed to find this system, without FTL, move all, or whatever remained of humanity (we know China and the US were the main superpowers out colonizing) and they terraformed 100’s of Earths all in the span of 500 years? Boggles the mind, and I’d much rather suspend disbelief and assume they have FTL. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spoilers-firefly-2-the-train-job/304009.md?page=4)