# spontaneous human combustion **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 23, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374 "2011-09-23T19:38:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/1 "2011-09-23T19:38:44Z")
Uh? Is this for real? [http://www.independent.ie/national-news/man-died-from-spontaneous-human-combustion-inquest-finds-2885633.html](http://www.independent.ie/national-news/man-died-from-spontaneous-human-combustion-inquest-finds-2885633.html) ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/2 "2011-09-23T19:40:15Z")
Absolutely not! Spontaneous Human Combustion is imposs– POOF!! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/3 "2011-09-23T20:05:55Z")
There’s already a thread going the last day or so about this, so I’ll close this one. Hmmm? Can’t seem to find it yet. I’ll be back. **samclem**. Oh, well, I can’t find it. I’ll unlock. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/4 "2011-09-23T20:19:06Z")
[The Master Speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/190/do-people-really-die-from-spontaneous-human-combustion) ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/5 "2011-09-24T02:20:15Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > There’s already a thread going the last day or so about this, so I’ll close this one. > > Hmmm? Can’t seem to find it yet. I’ll be back. > > **samclem**. > Oh, well, I can’t find it. I’ll unlock. I did look, I promise! 🙂 > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > [The Master Speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/190/do-people-really-die-from-spontaneous-human-combustion) Thanks! I did think that there had to be a reason other than people can just burst into flames. ---
**Author:** ![Alice\_The\_Goon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Alice\_The\_Goon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alice_The_Goon)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/6 "2011-09-24T05:54:24Z")
I’ve always wanted to die of spontaneous combustion. Not right now, but when it’s my time. That way, cremation is taken care of at the same time. I’ll kill two birds with one stone. I am nothing if not efficient. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/7 "2011-09-24T05:59:25Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > I’ve always wanted to die of spontaneous combustion. Not right now, but when it’s my time. That way, cremation is taken care of at the same time. I’ll kill two birds with one stone. I am nothing if not efficient. Be sure to do it someplace where you won’t make a mess! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/8 "2011-09-24T06:00:10Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > I’ve always wanted to die of spontaneous combustion. Not right now, but when it’s my time. That way, cremation is taken care of at the same time. I’ll kill two birds with one stone. I am nothing if not efficient. Plus if your friends and family could be given a bit of a heads up, they could have a funeral and wienie roast at the same time. S’mores, anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Teufelblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@Teufelblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teufelblitz)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/9 "2011-09-24T07:25:45Z")
If I knew the exact moment, and I knew a real jackhole who deserved it, I would gladly trot (or hobble) up to him at that moment and say, “Wanna see something Really scary?” ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/10 "2011-09-24T14:09:10Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Uh? Is this for real? > > [http://www.independent.ie/national-news/man-died-from-spontaneous-human-combustion-inquest-finds-2885633.html](http://www.independent.ie/national-news/man-died-from-spontaneous-human-combustion-inquest-finds-2885633.html) To return to the OP - Is this for real? Did the coroner not even look at the explanations made for just such a description of events - the wick effect. The article says that there is no explanation for ‘Spontaneous Human Combustion’ - yet the explanation is well documented. I even wrote about it in one of my books. So is this really for real? Is the Irish coronial system really so weak? Or is there some reason for dismissing the wick effect? Is there anyone who can find out more? Lynne ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/11 "2011-09-24T16:22:36Z")
> [@lynne-42](#): > > So is this really for real? Is the Irish coronial system really so weak? I know. A man is found burned to death a few feet away from an open fireplace with a fire in it. But the only possible explanation is spontaneous human combustion? The coroner sounds like an absolute idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Neevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Neevil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neevil)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/12 "2011-09-24T18:19:05Z")
> **[Wick effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Faherty)** > > The wick effect is the partial or total destruction of a human body by fire, when the clothing of the victim soaks up melted human fat and acts like the wick of a candle. The wick effect is a phenomenon that is found to occur under certain conditions, and has been thoroughly observed.\[citation needed\] > The wick effect theory says a person is kept aflame through their own fats after being ignited, accidentally or otherwise. The clothed human body acts like an "inside-out" candle, with the fuel ... I know it’s a Wikipedia article but there’s a little bit more detail than in the newspaper article linked. ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/13 "2011-09-25T05:15:08Z")
> [@Neevil](#): > > [Wick effect - Wikipedia](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Faherty) > > I know it’s a Wikipedia article but there’s a little bit more detail than in the newspaper article linked. Thank you. Every little bit more helps. But there is still nothing there which indicates it is not the wick effect, and no indication that the coroner checked out the explanations for apparent spontaneous human combustion. I find that surprising, believing that coroners are intelligent, scientifically oriented people and that the information only takes a quick google to find. In fact, a Wiki check will offer the wick effect: > **[Spontaneous human combustion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_human_combustion)** > > Spontaneous human combustion (SHC) is the pseudoscientific concept of the spontaneous combustion of a living (or recently deceased) human body without an apparent external source of ignition on the body. In addition to reported cases, descriptions of the alleged phenomenon appear in literature, and both types have been observed to share common characteristics in terms of circumstances and the remains of the victim. > Scientific investigations have attempted to analyze reported instances of SHC ... I am still hoping, for the sake of the Irish, that there is some reason why the coroner rejected the wick effect. Lynne ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/14 "2011-09-25T14:13:47Z")
> [@Arrendajo](#): > > Plus if your friends and family could be given a bit of a heads up, they could have a funeral and wienie roast at the same time. S’mores, anyone? These smores taste like burnt ass! ---
**Author:** ![Neevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Neevil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neevil)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/15 "2011-09-25T14:18:11Z")
The case has generated discussion on some Irish message boards in which the wick effect is mentioned a number of times. Apparently it is discussed in the book the coroner referred to for the case (mentioned in the wikipedia article) but I have not been able to find anything that states that the coroner did or did not take it into account. Incidentally, although I do not know the professional background of the coroner in this case it would appear that the Irish system does not require the coroner to have a medical/forensic background. This report may be of interest > **[department-of-justice](https://www.gov.ie/en/organisation/department-of-justice/?referrer=http:%2F%2Fwww.justice.ie%2Fen%2FJELR%2FReviewCoronerService.pdf%2FFiles%2FReviewCoronerService.pdf)** Relevant extract pg 46 The current position is that a coroner must, at time of appointment, be either a practising solicitor or barrister, or a registered medical practitioner. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/16 "2011-09-25T21:04:25Z")
> [@Neevil](#): > > Relevant extract pg 46 > The current position is that a coroner must, at time of appointment, be either a practising solicitor or barrister, or a registered > medical practitioner. Geezus. Thats even more disturbing than the fact that one particular coroner bought into a “human combustion” explaination. Me thinks a few lawyers with an ego of “lawyers can do anything” wrote that law. Then again, maybe they make them watch lots of old Quincy episodes first. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_I\_Am](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@Sam\_I\_Am](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_I_Am)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/17 "2011-09-26T19:42:33Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Geezus. Thats even more disturbing than the fact that one particular coroner bought into a “human combustion” explaination. Me thinks a few lawyers with an ego of “lawyers can do anything” wrote that law. Then again, maybe they make them watch lots of old Quincy episodes first. Yeah, but coroners in their system deal with investigations, deciding if there is a need for an inquest, etc. They work with medical examiners if there there is anything beyond the scope of natural death treated by a doctor. I don’t see a problem with their system in general: > **[Coroners, post-mortems and inquests](https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/coroners-post-mortems-and-inquests)** > > Coroners are independent judicial officers who investigate deaths reported to them. They will make the necessary enquiries to find out the cause of death. This includes ordering a post-mortem examination, getting witness statements and medical... ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/18 "2011-09-27T03:11:29Z")
> [@Neevil](#): > > The case has generated discussion on some Irish message boards in which the wick effect is mentioned a number of times. Apparently it is discussed in the book the coroner referred to for the case (mentioned in the wikipedia article) but I have not been able to find anything that states that the coroner did or did not take it into account. Thanks for this,\*\* Neevil\*\*, and your link. I’d like to hear more about the discussions on the Irish lists, including the general feel of the proportions happy about that verdict, and those not. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/19 "2011-09-27T03:27:33Z")
> [@Sam\_I\_Am](#): > > Yeah, but coroners in their system deal with investigations, deciding if there is a need for an inquest, etc. They work with medical examiners if there there is anything beyond the scope of natural death treated by a doctor. I don’t see a problem with their system in general The National Academy of Sciences has seen serious problems with coroner systems, urging that they be phased out in the U.S. in favor of medical examiner-run systems. Forensic pathologist Marcella Fierro has summed up the reasons for ME-run offices as follows: _“The major advantages of a statewide medical examiner system are the quality of death investigations and forensic pathology services and their independence from population size, county budget variation, and politics. Certification of death is accomplished by highly trained medical professionals who can integrate autopsy findings with those from the crime scene and the laboratory. The professionals have core competency in assessing immediate and earlier medical history, interviewing witnesses, and physical examination.”_ A coroner system in which a lawyer is appointed by a political officeholder (as in the cited Northern Ireland example) is bad enough, seeing as how the person making ultimate decisions about the cause of death and whether to authorize an investigation is not trained in forensic pathology and may have gotten the position solely through political influence. In the U.S., coroners (and sometimes M.E.s) may be elected officials which certainly does not eliminate the latter problem. Also, coroners who are not forensic pathologists but rather police officials, politicians or lawyers may be too chummy with police, [potentially affecting the outcome of death investigations](http://www.npr.org/2011/02/01/133301866/academy-recommends-phasing-out-coroners). Even if the coroner is a physician, a lack of forensic pathology training is problematic. In my county, a non-pathologist physician coroner decided not to run for re-election due to higher political ambitions while promoting his wife (another non-pathologist physician) for the job. Fortunately the voters selected a forensic pathologist. Board certification in forensic pathology should be a requirement for such a position in my view.\* As for “spontaneous human combustion”, the proposition is hopelessly tainted with appeals to the supernatural. The “wick” theory is intriguing, but I remain unconvinced until there are proper trials. Arpad Vass would be a natural to conduct the research.\*\* \*I am a hospital pathologist with a couple of residency rotations in forensic pathology, but would in my opinion fall short of the necessary knowledge to effectively run a death investigation service. An OB-GYN or an internist would be even less apt to do the job properly. \*\*Vass is a forensic anthropologist best known for his recent testimony on decomposition in connection with the Casey Anthony trial. He has also proposed outfitting flies with tracking chips to help locate decaying human remains. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374/20 "2011-09-27T04:03:12Z")
> [@Sam\_I\_Am](#): > > Yeah, but coroners in their system deal with investigations, deciding if there is a need for an inquest, etc. They work with medical examiners if there there is anything beyond the scope of natural death treated by a doctor. I don’t see a problem with their system in general: > > [Coroners, post-mortems and inquests | nidirect](http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/government-citizens-and-rights/death-and-bereavement/death-and-bereavement-what-to-do-when-someone-dies/coroners-post-mortems-and-inquests.htm) I honestly don’t know how the coroner system works here but your cite refers to Northern Ireland, while this case took place in the Republic Of Ireland. Again I don’t know how much the two systems diverge. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-human-combustion/597374.md?page=2)