# Spontaneous witticisms that weren't really spontaneous **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 13, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370 "2019-11-13T16:34:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/41 "2019-11-15T12:43:32Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Years ago, I saw a comedian’s stand-up routine on some late night show and then later saw the same comedian elsewhere. The routine was almost the same. I learned that stand-up comedians develop a routine over time, practicing in smaller venues until it’s polished enough for television or another major venue. (Sometimes the routine ends with a reference to an joke from the beginning of the routine.) A few years ago I found out that some local commedians were putting on a monthly comedy show for cancer patients. I went a few times. They did community service and was also able to practice their routine. After a few times I think I was able to to give their routine (without the delivery). They would throw in new jokes to see how they came across but it was basically the same thing. Oh, this was their “clean” version so it would be different at the clubs. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/42 "2019-11-15T15:02:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s not just comedians. It’s highly unlikely that an actor appearing on a talk show just happens to have an amusing story to tell in response to a random question asked by the host. I’m sure that in most cases, the actor and the host discussed it before the show and the host agreed to ask a question that would set up the story. And I’m sure in many cases, the story itself was invented by some writer rather than by the actor who delivered it. > > [Here’s some](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fbcpnmA9M0) [examples of](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYJrBDwta2U) [conversations](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Epez-jCTic) that I doubt very much were spontaneous. There is a famous one where Douglas Adams tells an amusing story about eating someone’s cookies. It turns out that it was an old joke that he recycled as a personal story. > [@dorvann](#): > > Do the morning shows (_Today_,\* Good Morning America\*) “rehearse” their interviews with celebrities as well? I mean, they are supposedly “news” shows so you think they wouldn’t do that. Nobody rehearses interviews unless it’s a specific bit. What happens is a producer does a pre-interview and asks the guest if there is anything they want to talk about. It’s my understanding that it depends on the guest. Some want a set up to something they are prepared to talk about. Some just want to go on and talk. As far as I know it’s the same late night or morning. > [@Author\_Balk](#): > > A few years ago I found out that some local commedians were putting on a monthly comedy show for cancer patients. I went a few times. They did community service and was also able to practice their routine. After a few times I think I was able to to give their routine (without the delivery). They would throw in new jokes to see how they came across but it was basically the same thing. Oh, this was their “clean” version so it would be different at the clubs. Local (new) comics are trying to work on getting a good ten minutes they can use as an opener at a bigger venue. 10 minutes doesn’t sound like a lot but it is. It is unrealistic to think that comics would have a new routine every day. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/43 "2019-11-15T15:13:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Years ago, I saw a comedian’s stand-up routine on some late night show and then later saw the same comedian elsewhere. The routine was almost the same. I learned that stand-up comedians develop a routine over time, practicing in smaller venues until it’s polished enough for television or another major venue. (Sometimes the routine ends with a reference to an joke from the beginning of the routine.) That is a pretty standard way of doing things for most comics but not all. I’ve heard Eddie Izzard say when he is touring it evolves every night. He will arbitrarily put a tour name on it at one time but if you saw him at the end of one tour and the beginning of another you will see almost the same material. He works out his material in sold out theaters and not random Wednesday spots at 10pm. Most good comics build up a tight hour with an eye towards getting a deal to put out a special on a network. After they do that special they consider that hour “burned” and have to start off with new material. If you see them doing spots at a showcase show just after they may put in a little old material to keep things moving but it’s often new ideas they are working through. Even with good comics those first shows after a special can be rough. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/44 "2019-11-15T15:56:08Z")
There was an attraction at the Las Vegas Hilton called _Star Trek: The Experience_ in which you could pay to put on Trek costumes and play along with a scripted “mission”, lightly interacting with prerecorded videos of several of the actors. Some friends of mine went on it and showed us their souvenir video and it was mildly amusing/cringeworthy. I chuckled about midway through when during a “transporter” sequence, some kid made a small seemingly improvised, slightly naughtily-off-script waving gesture. Later on, I saw someone else’s footage and at the same moment, a different kid was in the same position and made the same gesture. I was disillusioned to realize that this was clearly being done at the prompting of the staff and was not a one-off improvisation. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/45 "2019-11-15T16:10:59Z")
Back in the early 60s, we stayed at a Catskill resort where a comic performed. One of his bits was to have the audience shout out a name of a celebrity and he’s “compose” a song about him or her. Obviously, they made no claim to improvising the music – it was the same for everyone – but he’d come up with a clever verse to fit the request. I forget what the celebrity was, but after his name was shouted, the comic sang a verse about the celebrity and Christine Jorgensen.\* I realized two things: 1. He had already written verses for famous people in the news (I remember Joe Namath, for instance) that were bound to be requests. 2. If he didn’t have a verse already in mind, he’d used the Christine Jorgensen verse if the celebrity was male. I suspect he had something similar prepared for a female celebrity. \*For those who don’t recognize the name, Jorgensen was the first person to be widely known in the US after having sex reassignment surgery. She was the butt of jokes for years. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/46 "2019-11-15T16:23:27Z")
Any performer can tell you that ad libbing is risky. They can also tell you how easy it is to recite a rehearsed line and make it sound like an ad lib. It’s nothing to complain about, it makes the performances better. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/47 "2019-11-15T16:27:36Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That is a pretty standard way of doing things for most comics but not all. I’ve heard Eddie Izzard say when he is touring it evolves every night. He will arbitrarily put a tour name on it at one time but if you saw him at the end of one tour and the beginning of another you will see almost the same material. He works out his material in sold out theaters and not random Wednesday spots at 10pm. > > Most good comics build up a tight hour with an eye towards getting a deal to put out a special on a network. After they do that special they consider that hour “burned” and have to start off with new material. If you see them doing spots at a showcase show just after they may put in a little old material to keep things moving but it’s often new ideas they are working through. Even with good comics those first shows after a special can be rough. Back when Eddie Murphy was hitting it big as a stand-up comedian, he released a film version of his show. I’ve read that it was actually a recording of two different shows. Murphy was so practiced at the delivery of the show, that they were able to edit footage from the two different live performances together and the audience watching the movie didn’t notice. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/48 "2019-11-15T18:24:00Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Any performer can tell you that ad libbing is risky. They can also tell you how easy it is to recite a rehearsed line and make it sound like an ad lib. It’s nothing to complain about, it makes the performances better. They also have go-to lines for specific scenarios. For example, there may not be a drunk or rowdy heckler at every performance but they occur often enough for most stand-ups to have material mentally ready to cut the jerk down in a seemingly spontaneous fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/49 "2019-11-16T02:08:15Z")
I’ve seen a few Jeff Dunham shows on TV. Frequently there is a “puppet malfunction”. Something on the puppet breaks or something. Everyone cracks up laughing and the puppet makes comments about it. I’ve wondered if this is planned, or if something really breaks and he adlibs the lines. I’m thinking it’s planned. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/50 "2019-11-16T19:44:15Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Any performer can tell you that ad libbing is risky. They can also tell you how easy it is to recite a rehearsed line and make it sound like an ad lib. It’s nothing to complain about, it makes the performances better. There are quite a few comics that are known for their crowd work. A couple of weeks ago I saw one of them, Big Jay Oakerson. He genuinely plays off the crowd and will improvise depending on who he talks to. He’s also an expert at being able to steer the conversation into his prepared bits. His shows are always a little different because of his crowd work. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Back when Eddie Murphy was hitting it big as a stand-up comedian, he released a film version of his show. I’ve read that it was actually a recording of two different shows. Murphy was so practiced at the delivery of the show, that they were able to edit footage from the two different live performances together and the audience watching the movie didn’t notice. That’s very standard. I don’t know of any stand up specials that don’t use two shows. It’s usually done the same night. I’ve heard multiple comics plugging to have people come out to their taping. It’s never a secret that they are going to film multiple shows. Too many things can go wrong to leave it up to chance on one show. I doubt Murphy was the first to think of it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/51 "2019-11-16T21:40:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Back when Eddie Murphy was hitting it big as a stand-up comedian, he released a film version of his show. I’ve read that it was actually a recording of two different shows. Murphy was so practiced at the delivery of the show, that they were able to edit footage from the two different live performances together and the audience watching the movie didn’t notice. There are videos of Chris Rock (“Kill the Messenger” among others) doing his routines and practically in mid-sentence his outfit will change from leather jacket and tee-shirt to black blazer and black shirt to black suit, white shirt and necktie. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/52 "2019-11-19T14:14:25Z")
Red Skelton was famous for ad-libbing during the skits he did. It appeared to be bona-fide, because his whole schtick was pwning his guest stars into making them laugh and lose track of their lines. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/53 "2019-11-19T14:35:49Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > Do the morning shows (_Today_,\* Good Morning America\*) “rehearse” their interviews with celebrities as well? I mean, they are supposedly “news” shows so you think they wouldn’t do that. I watched a youtube compilation of Rami Malek promoting Bohemian Rhapsody on various talkshows and was genuinely surprised that not only the answers but the questions were the same on almost every show. You could cut between different shows in the same sentence with no loss of coherency. Before that I actually believed each show asked their own questions and ran the show their own way. I am wiser, but sadder now. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/54 "2019-11-19T14:56:46Z")
> [@johnspartan](#): > > One prime (time) example of this was Hollywood Squares. It was meant to feel like quick responses, but the guests were given the questions in advance to think up “spontaneous” jokes. Think up spontaneous jokes? I was always under the impression that it went one step further; that they had jokes written for them. One of the worst at fake spontaneity is The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. There are several bits he does that have fake spontaneity; but the worst are any of the ones where they have push a big red button to randomly select a song to sing. First of all it’s easy to tell that the button doesn’t control the random song generator, and second, it’s seems obviously that the chosen song was right in the wheel house for them to sing. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/55 "2019-11-19T15:45:35Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Years ago, I saw a comedian’s stand-up routine on some late night show and then later saw the same comedian elsewhere. The routine was almost the same. I learned that stand-up comedians develop a routine over time, practicing in smaller venues until it’s polished enough for television or another major venue. (Sometimes the routine ends with a reference to an joke from the beginning of the routine.) That’s the definitory difference between “a routine” and “improv”. > [@markn\_1](#): > > Around 1972-73, Groucho Marx started appearing on various TV shows, which was apparently orchestrated by his manipulative companion Erin Fleming. In these appearances, the 82 year old Groucho was noticeably frail and occasionally confused. In one appearance with Bill Cosby, there was an exchange which I recall went someting like this: > > Cosby: How would you compare me to other comedians working today? > Groucho: Well, you’re better than Nixon. > > I thought this was a pretty sharp and funny response. Then a few days or weeks later, Groucho and Cosby appeared together on a different show. Cosby again gave Groucho the exact same setup line, but this time Groucho did not respond with the “Nixon” line. Cosby rephrased and repeated the question several times; you could see he was desperately trying to coax Groucho into repeating the “Nixon” joke. It could perfectly well have been a genuine witticism, but with Marx’ wit being on its way out, the second time the remark simply didn’t trigger anything. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/56 "2019-11-19T18:48:28Z")
> [@Author\_Balk](#): > > I’ve seen a few Jeff Dunham shows on TV. Frequently there is a “puppet malfunction”. Something on the puppet breaks or something. Everyone cracks up laughing and the puppet makes comments about it. I’ve wondered if this is planned, or if something really breaks and he adlibs the lines. I’m thinking it’s planned. I’m thinking that if the actual “malfunction” isn’t planed, he’s got something planned for what he’s going to say in the event that something breaks. I always assumed it worked similarly when comics talk to audience members, like what RealityChuck said earlier. They know what they’re going to ask people in the audience, and they have snappy comebacks prepared for the most common responses, and a generic comeback for the rest. For example: “So what do you do for a living, sir?” “I work for Initech updating banking software for Y2K” “Oh, was that your childhood dream, to work for Initech?” (which would probably be the generic comeback). I suspect they have comebacks prepared for the event that they get heckled, too. ---
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370/57 "2019-12-30T20:00:32Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > Think up spontaneous jokes? I was always under the impression that it went one step further; that they had jokes written for them. > > One of the worst at fake spontaneity is The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. > There are several bits he does that have fake spontaneity; but the worst are any of the ones where they have push a big red button to randomly select a song to sing. First of all it’s easy to tell that the button doesn’t control the random song generator, and second, it’s seems obviously that the chosen song was right in the wheel house for them to sing. Dunno. I’d guess they may have had both… just to pull names out of a hat, a Gilbert Gottfried mighta said “just give me a handful of straight lines, I’ll come up with some jokes” whereas a Dr. Joyce Brothers mighta said “If you have any good jokes to hand me, I’ll consider them.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spontaneous-witticisms-that-werent-really-spontaneous/843370.md?page=2)