# Sport, Puzzle, Toy or Game? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 6, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sport-puzzle-toy-or-game/716980 "2015-04-06T19:01:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sport-puzzle-toy-or-game/716980/1 "2015-04-06T19:01:39Z")
I submit all (or nearly all) active recreational activities\* could be classified as one of the four categories above. I thought it would be interesting to try classifying some things and see where people think they fall. A few examples: The Sims (and its sequels). They sold as games but I would classify them as a Toy. There is little structure or rules which are the hallmarks of games vs. toys. Golf. I think Golf skirts the edge of Sport and Game (albeit a competitive game). I could see it fall on either side. Bowling is also on this edge. for some reason i would want to put Golf on the Sport side and Bowling on the Game side but mostly that is a feel thing and i could be argued they are both one or the other. What do others think about these or any other activities? \*I know the word Active seems redundant there but I am not including passive entertainments like watching movies, watching TV or reading books etc. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sport-puzzle-toy-or-game/716980/2 "2015-04-06T19:07:36Z")
My primary recreational activity is playing music (guitar, bass and piano). That doesn’t fit into your taxonomy. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sport-puzzle-toy-or-game/716980/3 "2015-04-06T19:22:06Z")
Any creative activity- I make stained glass windows, others paint, knit, play musical instruments etc doesn’t fit in at all. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sport-puzzle-toy-or-game/716980/4 "2015-04-06T19:37:06Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Golf. I think Golf skirts the edge of Sport and Game (albeit a competitive game). I could see it fall on either side. Bowling is also on this edge. for some reason i would want to put Golf on the Sport side and Bowling on the Game side but mostly that is a feel thing and i could be argued they are both one or the other. What is your definition of “sport” and “game”? I would posit that all sports are a subset of games, those which are athletic/physical and competitive in nature. This isn’t the best definition, mind, I think chess (which is non-physical) should be a sport. I also dislike classifying anything decided by judges instead of objective score (such as say, gymnastics competitions) as “sports” rather than just “competitions”, though they are obviously physical. But I’m not see why golf or bowling would be “on the edge.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sport-puzzle-toy-or-game/716980/5 "2015-04-06T20:39:52Z")
I address some of these definitional questions in [my book](http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/aesthetic-play). What you are describing are various types of play spaces: \*\*Games \*\*are play spaces that have explicit rules and goals. \*\*Sports \*\*are games that are constrained by the physical properties of objects or bodies. \*\*Toys \*\*are physical objects that can be played with without explicit rules or goals. \*\*Puzzles \*\*are games that can be played only once. These are the definitions that I use, but you might find other definitions that are better suited to your own purposes. However, as others have pointed out, there are playful activities that don’t fit nicely into any of these categories. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sport-puzzle-toy-or-game/716980/6 "2015-04-06T20:57:23Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > I address some of these definitional questions in [my book](http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/aesthetic-play). > > What you are describing are various types of play spaces: > > \*\*Games \*\*are play spaces that have explicit rules and goals. > \*\*Sports \*\*are games that are constrained by the physical properties of objects or bodies. > \*\*Toys \*\*are physical objects that can be played with without explicit rules or goals. > \*\*Puzzles \*\*are games that can be played only once. Toys, in particular, and many puzzles are physical things, while games and sports are generally activities. A Frisbee is a toy. Ultimate Frisbee is a sport. A Yo-yo is a toy, but you can have yo-yo competitions that are sports, I guess. In addition many puzzles, like jigsaw puzzles, can be played multiple times. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sport-puzzle-toy-or-game/716980/7 "2015-04-07T00:48:16Z")
There are many activities that don’t fit any of them. I shouldn’t have worded my first sentence so definitively. I guess the point of the thread was to classify the things that do fit but could fit in more than one. FWIW I would define a Sport as a competition that is primarily physical in nature where the goal is to win (however winning is defined). You could make a case that a Sport also requires you to have the ability to impede your opponent’s progress in some way which would then put things like Golf and Bowling on the Game side of the fence. Hamster King, thank you for pointing me to your book. I had no idea you wrote one on this topic. Your definitions are good. I especially like how you summed up Puzzles more succinctly than I could have thought was possible. I would submit, however, that a toy not need to be a psychical object. As I wrote, I believe The Sims are a toy. There are other online activities I would also define as toys even though they are not objects. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sport-puzzle-toy-or-game/716980/8 "2015-04-07T23:10:59Z")
I would say that a sport is any game which has a non-random component, and where being told what to do isn’t determinative. That is to say, if I sit down to play a game of chess, and Gary Kasparov tells me what to do for every play, I’ll play as well as Gary Kasparov. But if I play a game of basketball, and LeBron James tells me what to do, I still won’t play anywhere near as well as LeBron James (though I might improve a bit due to the coaching). Thus, basketball is a sport, while chess is not. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sport-puzzle-toy-or-game/716980/9 "2015-04-08T00:04:39Z")
FWIW, this question comes up, to some extent, on talkSPORT fairly regularly, w/ regards to the rather more English activities of snooker and darts. Both tend to straddle the line between game and sport; snooker can have puzzle elements as players work out shots. (Darts could be argued to have a puzzle element, I guess, in figuring out finishing sequences, but it’d be a stretch.)